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Hi John,

Am 10.10.2022 um 08:27 schrieb John Kaufmann:
Hi Harald,

i apologize for taking days to reply. After a week of work emergencies, I have finally had a chance to digest your link and think through the issues.

On 2022-10-02 12:35, wrote:
Am 02.10.2022 um 14:30 schrieb John Kaufmann:
On 2022-10-02 02:50, wrote:
Am 02.10.2022 um 07:06 schrieb John Kaufmann:
Discussing Character styles, the Help says of the particular style "No Character Style" that:

"No Character Style is actually the set of character properties of the current paragraph style. Choose No Character Style to reset the character properties of the selection to those of the paragraph style."

That sounds fine -- a needed function (though it is new in LO 7, isn't it?).

Yes and No, this Character Style is called "Default" in older LibreOffice versions.

Thank you. After thinking about your point, I realize that the "Default" character style was renamed "No Character Style" for the benefit of dummies (like me) who did not see the point earlier, that "Default" means revert to the character attributes of the underlying paragraph style. (No release notes are needed for that.)

That said, this exposes my second problem:

But then how does that differ from the particular style "Default Paragraph Style" (about which the Help is silent)? Is not the Default Paragraph Style already set by the current Paragraph style? What does it mean to designate a Character style as "Default Paragraph Style"?

The "Default Paragraph Style" is sort of the mother of all paragraph styles, IMHO it should not be used, but "Text Body" instead.

I'm sorry, but isn't "Text Body" a Paragraph style, not a Character style?  My question is about the different purposes of the /Character/ styles "Default Paragraph Style" [about which, as I asked, What does it mean to designate a /Character/ style as "Default Paragraph Style"?], "No Character Style" and "- None -".

I must have misunderstood that then.

If you misunderstood, it was only because my question was confused.  What I did not know then about the "Default Paragraph Style" *character* style is that it was *NOT* part of the LO package, but was a *custom* character style, produced in our office to try to produce what LO's "Default"/"No Character Style" already provided (and was given the name "Default Paragraph Style" (which happens to be the same name as the base *paragraph* style) to emphasize its purpose: to revert any character attributes to the default attributes defined by the relevant paragraph style).

I apologize for the noise in that regard; before posting, I should have noticed that it was a *custom* character style. (When I realized that -- and that it was unnecessary and confusing -- I removed it from the system.)
No need for apologies. Not for this.

Finally: though "- None -" is not among the pre-defined Character styles, it is among the parent choices when defining a new Character style.  How does the behavior of a Character style change when "Inherit from" is set to ... "No Character Style" vs "- None -"? [I have not detected a difference.]
Let's look at it from the text. Let's say you have written 10 paragraphs and each paragraph has a different paragraph style. Now you want to bold one word in each paragraph. You select the words and assign the character style "Strong Emphasis" to each. Now you have added one word too many with the character style sheet "Strong Emphasis". You now select the word and assign the "No Character Style" character style sheet. The word now has its old format meaning again.

Here is some more, I hope, helpful information:

That was very good [though I could offer a couple minor suggestions*], but I'm sorry to have given the impression that I was unaware of either (a) the basic value of styles or (b) the relationship of Writer's character to paragraph styles.

The most important thing I learned from your link was about the Style Inspector, a great addition to the LO toolset. I'm embarrassed that I did not remark on it when I moved to LO 7, and somehow managed to work with the other Sidebar tools (mostly Navigator and Styles) without noticing it.

[* I mentioned that I could offer two minor suggestions on your link. In doing so, I recognize that these are problems inherent in any system produced in multiple languages: How to name something in translation?  However, since the page was translated from German (Professionelle Arbeit in Writer) to English (Professional work in Writer), I assume that the translation wants to use the corresponding English naming used in the LO system. To that end,
    (1) "Delete Direct Formatting" => "Clear Direct Formatting"
Thank you for your careful reading.
Normally it should not happen.
For the terms in LibreOffice, I use an English programme version in parallel.
Well, as you can see, something can still "slip through".
I have already corrected it. Thank you again.

    (2) Where you say 'All other paragraph styles are derived from the "Standard" paragraph style', do you mean:     'All other paragraph styles are derived from the "Default Paragraph Style"'?]
Yes right, that is also such a translation problem. Thank you for your thorough reading.

Thanks to you and Michael, I understand the purpose of "No Character Style", except for the remaining issue of inheritance. Let me summarize that problem in this way:     o Page, List and Table styles are not heritable, and thus by definition have no parent style.
    o Paragraph, Character and Frame styles are all heritable.
    o ANY style type which is heritable can declare no parent ("-None-").

But a Character style also can declare inheritance from "No Character Style", as well as from "-None-"; I cannot detect a difference in operation.  Since a Character style is used to modify the character attributes of a Paragraph style, do you know a good way to think about this difference?
I only have character styles with "-None-", both, those from LibreOffice and my own.
Perhaps the developers have had a change of heart about this (?).
With me:
Version: (x64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 3c58a8f3a960df8bc8fd77b461821e42c061c5f0
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19044; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: de-DE (en_DE); UI: de-DE
Calc: CL

Best Regards

Thanks again for your thoughts,

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