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I am having trouble with my Feb 2010 AMD quad core desktop. It started out as Ubuntu 9.10. I now have it set up for 14.04LTS. The big issue with going beyond that - i.e. 16.04 - is the fact that the upgrade craps out during the install process. I have to have 13.10 or earlier to get my Canon MG6220 drivers to work. Then I get to update/upgrade it to 14.04LTS. Then I must stop or crash the install and have problems with GRUB thinking that it had a good install for 16.04 when it does not work at all. At least now I have very little on the 250 GB OS's drive that gets lost. I stopped using it for emails after that. It is just a files server now - sort of.

As for MS Office - well I had one lady make her Word documents as .doc files. Between me and all the people the documents go to uses every version from 2007 to the version out two years ago. Then there is me who has not used MS Office since 2003, used and then LibreOffice since then, prefer the .doc format over the .docx format.

That is what you get with the current marketing practice, make it so that you cannot get proper working drivers in Windows after a few years, so you have to keep buying new printers, etc., every few years even if the printer is still running great. It is really a problem with Windows 10 to get my Canon printers [old and new] working with all of their options. Win10 wants "their" drivers instead of what the printer installs. It is even worse to get an all-in-one printer's scanning functions [all of them] to show up in the scanning "app", if the printer's scanning ability is actually registered in the Device's window.

On 07/17/2017 12:48 PM, Concerned Citizen wrote:
That's just true. Only time documents don't render elements is when you use features only in the new version. Microsoft back ports format support. It's not an issue. Office 2007/10 documents opened with no issues in Office XP/2003, save for the above named issue.

Using new version quickly after release on older hardware is always an issue due to drivers. The OS is new and often developers and OEMs don't have the updates out. This exists for all OSes. My Razer peripherals didn't function for weeks after the macks Sierra update because Razer didn't have their driver updates ready.

Vista had many driver level changes, and people moving from 98/Me to 2000/XP had even greater issues with both software and hardware.

That's all pretty much expected.

I used RH Enterprise Linux WS back then. My device drivers (especially graphics) broke on version upgrades while I waited for ATI to get a new package out, and this still happens with system upgrades that change things like the Kernel or X.Org.

On Jul 17, 2017 10:17 AM, "Tim-L--Elmira-NY" < <>> wrote:

    I agree with "anne-ology" about using old operating systems. I
    have had trouble with Windows Vista and Windows 7, when they were
    new.  Even with fully updated Windows 10 gives me trouble.  That
is one reason I use Ubuntu Linux with MATE desktop environment. Even people who use Linux can tell you that there are some issues
    using Linux, just like Windows does.

    As for issues between MS Office and LibreOffice, remember there
    are problems with both.  The fact that MS Office's .docx format is
    different between the various MS Office version with the newest
    version of .docx formatted documents can not be opened/viewed
    properly with the earlier versions of Office with .docx

    Remember, like MS Office, LibreOffice is not perfect. Our
    developers are volunteers.  They do the best they can to fix any
    issues that are reported in the Bug Reporting system.  The good
    thing is that LibreOffice is less "complex" than MS Office's Word.
    Of course, LibreOffice's Writer was not designed to do such
    complex that only 0.001%[+/-] or less of their market users will
    use. There were special "classes" on these very complex
    options/functions.  One year there was an announcement that the
    new version have over 1000 new functions over the previous
    version.  LibreOffice was not designed to be "one package to due
    it all".

    On 07/16/2017 09:58 AM, anne-ology wrote:

                Using a MsFt product that's 21 years old is bound to
        cause problems.

        From: Concerned Citizen <
        Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 4:02 AM
        Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Problem with LibreOffice 5
        To: anne-ology < <>>

        Windows NT 4. Released in 1996, IIRC.

        And no. You send feedback to them through the appropriate
        Microsoft has way too many users for them to be able to manage
        emails from
        everyone themselves. No business that large does that.

        On Jul 15, 2017 6:59 PM, "anne-ology" <
        <>> wrote:

                Curiously wondering if you're saying one can go to
        MsFt's heads with

            problems & these will be fixed pronto;
                       if so, I'd like to hear an example of when you
            so did.

                    And just what is NT4???

            From: Concerned Citizen <
            Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:36 PM
            Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Problem with LibreOffice 5
            To: Tom Davies < <>>

            I find it quite disturbing that someone stating an issue
            and, perhaps,
asking for help leads to a thread of Windows-bashing... This is
            particularly interesting, since I don't remember
            LibreOffice being a
            competitor to Windows - although it seems to have about as
            many scripting
            languages as Windows has [Microsoft] development languages...

            In any case, I have run into several issues with the suite
            on both Windows
            (macOS, but let's focus on the former), from Hardware
            Acceleration and
            OpenCL simply not functioning (at all - which is awful on
            a Notebook on
            Battery).  To tons of issues with Styles.  To epic
            performance issues on my
            Notebook stemming from those awful Liberation Fonts
            (disappears when I
            change font to Times or Arial, etc.).  Bad font rendering
            in the
            applications (thin, patchy looking fonts... like something
            on a low res
            PenTile display).  And the fact that the apps perform
            worse than both
            Microsoft and Corel WordPerfect Office (both of which I
            own, so I can do
            1:1 comparison on Windows).

            I won't even talk about Linux, because that is clearly
            off-topic, and I'm
            not sure how you people have extended this to Microsoft
            and Microsoft
            Windows.  Is there nothing better to do with your time,
            and do you actually
            wish this to be a place where people can have civil
            discussion and give
            feedback without fear of the "Tear Down the Competition"
            reflex you're
            exhibiting, here?

            For fixing Permissions in Windows, you can go to the top
            level and simply
            propagate the permission changes down.  It's not
            difficult.  It's worked
            that way for about 2 decades (since at least NT4).

            On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Tom Davies
            < <>> wrote:

                Hi :)
                One problem, once and experienced by just one person
                rarely compares with
                the problems that abound on Windows.
                Regards from
                Tom :)

                On 10 Jul 2017 15:29, "Tom Williams"
                < <>> wrote:

                On 07/09/2017 02:33 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

                    Hi :)
                    There was a Win 10 update that messed up the
                    permissions in one of the
                    places i volunteer at.

                    I have no idea how to fix it.  I think we went
                    through each individual
                    folder to reset the permissions but that sounds
                    like a very
                    inefficient and highly error-prone way of trying
                    to fix it generally.
                    Still, 'everyone' loves Windows.

                    Regards from
                    Tom :)

                Wow. Craziness.   :)


                "The Other" Tom

                    On 9 July 2017 at 17:46, Tom Williams
                    < <>
                    <>>> wrote:

                         On 07/08/2017 02:56 AM, MICHAEL HELY wrote:
> I am having trouble with this suite. Normally I have been able
                         to open, amend, and save a document without
                    any problem.
                         However, in the last week or so I can only
                    open a document in
                         read-only form.   To change the contents I
                    have to open a copy for
                         editing, save that under a different name,
                    delete the original,
                         and then rename the new document to fit in
                    with my filing system.
                            This is time consuming, and very inconvenient.
                         > The only event that I can identify as a
                    possible cause is that
                         about the same time there was an automatic
                    update to Windows 10,
                         and there might be some incompatablity
                    between the updated Windows
                         and LibreOffice.    (I have since installed
                    the latest update to
                         LibreOffice5, but to no avail;  the problem
                    is still there).
                         However that is only a wild guess!     I
                    would be grateful for
                         your advice and a remedy
                         > regards
                         > M. Hely
                         I have two basic questions:

                          1. Have you confirmed the original file
                    wasn't already "read-only"
                             before attempting to open it?
                          2. Are you opening files from the file
                    system or directly from an

                         These are things you have probably already
                    thought of but I want
                         to ask
                         anyway.  :)   I've run LibreOffice 5 on a
                    couple of Windows 10


                         and have been able to open, edit, and save
                    documents without issue.


                         "The Other" Tom

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