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Amen Dennis!

I do the same as you. I look at the most recent post in the thread - if top posted I make a call if I want to read any of the thread - if bottom posted I have to hit Ctl - end to get to the bottom of the message or scroll through way too many reply brackets to get to the bottom

I subscribe to the each his own theory - one size does not fit all

Those who ramble on about whether top or bottom posting should be the norm and criticize those who do not comply with their desires are probably the same people who criticize developers who set options to defaults that do not comply with their way of thinking.

Onward!  Ever upward! To the top!!!

Preston

On 9/8/2011 6:05 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: planas [mailto:jslozier@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 19:33
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?

Hi

On Wed, 2011-09-07 at 21:29 -0400, Don Myers wrote:

Reply below:

On 09/07/2011 08:02 PM, NoOp wrote:
For those that continue to insist on top posting on the LO lists: please
consider bottom posting with interspersed replies.

I realiz(s)e that the existing:
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/
doesn't specifically clarify anything with regards to top/bottom
posting. However at the bottom of each mail on this list is a link to:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
That page doesn't help much either, but it /does/ include a link to:
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
which includes this bit:
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.3

<quote>
2.3 Why should I place my response below the quoted text?

Usually, the reading-flow is from left to right and from top to bottom,
and people expect a chronological sequence similar to this. Especially
people who are reading a lot of articles (and who therefore would
qualify as the ideal person to answer your question) appreciate it if
they can read at first the text to which you are referring. The quoted
text is some kind of help to remember the topic, which of course will
not work, if you place the quoted text below your response.

Furthermore, that's the standard. This may sound as a weak argument, but
since people are not used to reading the other way around, they have no
idea what you are referring to and have to go back and forth between the
referenced articles, have to jump between different articles and so on.
In short - reading the article becomes more and more difficult - for
people who read many articles it is reason enough to skip the entire
article, if the context is not obvious.

And besides: doesn't it look stupid to first get the answer and then see
the question? (Aside from Jeopardy, of course.)

Furthermore, you (yes: You) save a lot of time using this way of
quoting: You do not need to repeat what the person you refer to wrote,
in order to show the context. You just place your comment after the text
you wish to comment upon, and everybody immediately knows what you refer
to. Also, you realize which text you are *not* responding to and can
delete these parts.

So: using this technique you save time, your readers don't have to waste
time, you save bandwidth and disk-space. Isn't it great what you can
achieve by such simple means?
</quote>

and that seems to imply that such posting styles on this list are the
desired guideline.

Samples of similar on other lists:

http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/etiquette.html
<quote>
Top-posting vs bottom-posting.

      Some people like to put reply after the quoted text, some like it
the other way around, and still some prefer interspersed style. Debates
about which posting style is better have led to many flame wars in the
forums. To keep forum discussion friendly, please do interspersion with
trimming (see above for trimming rules). For a simple reply, this is
equivalent bottom-posting. So, remove extraneous material, and place
your comments in logical order, after the text you are commenting upon.
The only exceptions are the accessibility forums, which are top-posting.
</quote>

http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists
<quote>
Proper quoting:

Proper quoting is very important on mailing lists, to ensure that it is
easy to follow the conversation. There are four fundamental rules:

....

      Write your email underneath the email which you are replying to.
...
</quote>

and even:
http://www.openoffice.org/ml_guidelines.html
<quote>
Replying
When replying to other people it is customary to intersperse your
response with their questions, both so you can answer the actual
question that was asked, and so everyone else has some idea what you are
talking about. It is also customary to limit your quoting to the minimum
possible to get your point across. Take the time to be considerate,
remember those subscribers who have slow, expensive connections.
</quote>

Note: that last is liable to go away given the recent
transition/announcements by Apache regarding mail lists... but it's
worth mentioning anyway.

Eventually I hope that LO will actually include a link to general
posting guidelines on the
<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/>   page with complete
posting guidelines. Even if the final consensus is to only top post...
at least will help with consistancy on this (users), and the other LO lists.

Added Note: I've set the 'Followup-to' on this message to the discuss
list as I think that is more the appropriate location for continued
discussion of the issue. But I posted here initially on the users list
as this is the list that really needs the guidelines (IMO) the most.



Hi All,

I will respect your wishes about posting at the bottom. I live in the
US. I do a lot of work e-mails in my job, and receive a lot of work
e-mails. I never receive any e-mails where people reply to me at the
bottom. The reply is always at the top. I never understood why
Thunderbird had the default to reply at the bottom when Thunderbird came
out. It was backwards!!!!!! So I have always changed the default on
every system I've installed it on. Maybe there are different customs in
different countries.

Don
The real reason is on a list one may be joining the thread late and
needs to know what has been discussed. Often business emails are just
written conversations between people. Thus top posting works there very
well.

<orcmid>
Oddly, on the Apache lists retention of the full text and bottom posting attracts giant 
thunderbolts because so many users rely on a service like GMANE to read the list and so they always 
have context and don't need all of that material repeated endlessly.  It is in their way.

On the other hand, over there I am eviscerated because I keep breaking threads, but never for top 
posting.

And this is the last time I will bottom post, only because I know the preceding poster did.

You'll also notice that my reply doesn't have an additional set of brackets, so in-line commenting 
makes it very difficult to know what is new comment and what is from the previous message.

PS: It is often handy to see the answer first.  I can quickly determine whether or not I care what 
the question is.  And if I know what the general run of a thread has been, I don't need to see the 
rest of the message except to check for blankety-blank inline but unannounced comments.

PPS:I even receive my mail last-in first and I can process it that way.  Sometimes I see the answer 
at the end of a long thread first and I know I can ignore the intermediate replies.  I don't 
*always* do that, but it can be very handy.

PPPS: I am amused that, for the years of struggle with working on lists and email and newsgroups, 
there is still this notion of a forced one size fits all as if it really fits all.
</orcmid>


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