Dear Roland, Tom & Alex
Wow! - I actually just received a reply (Below) from the bug site:-
there was me thinking all that was required was hidden extra code at the
top of every page "Am I a tabbed page or not?" if so "what is my name",
"do I belong to a group", "My tab is green" - simples
I am not a programmer!
But, I am more than delighted to get a response from such a source, even
though, not the hopeful one I would have wished for.
Its a bit like:- If you need BOLD, just put it through the printer twice
I guess Roland, from you comments you must have received a similar
response to your bug reports?
So - Any Volunteers?
Regards
John B
>>>>
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38401
--- Comment #1 from Michael Meeks<michael.meeks@novell.com> 2011-06-20 07:36:10 PDT ---
IMHO implementing the tab feature would take quite some work here, instead it
might be good to insert a set of links in the document at the top to allow
quick jumping to the various sections;
But of course, this is all work. Lets see if some volunteer jumps in to do it -
otherwise if you pay someone to do the work, you can have it done as you like I
guess.
>>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 20/06/11 01:40, Roland Hughes a écrit :
Hi Roland,
It won't be anywhere near close. Get a copy of SmartSuit 98 or later
and see what a word processor was supposed to be.
Shame that such good functionality was left by the wayside by IBM...coz
it was damned handy !!
Alex
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 17/06/2011 19:37, Roland Hughes wrote:
Dear John,
It will not work as a bolt on. I really really REALLY thought IBM was
finally going to sort this out, since they have the ENTIRE WordPro file
specification. The OpenDocument file format has to have many things
added to it in order to support tabbed document divisions. Mainly, it
has to have XML to identify those divisions as completely separate "sub
documents" which only allow a small amount of things to carry over from
the parent/enclosing document. Each "subdocument" has its own flags to
support current page number, print/hide, previous/next subdocs, etc.
Eliminating the existing tabs and replacing them with the Window menu
item IS only a programming change. It doesn't require any change to the
file specification.
Between the above programming change and the tabbed document
specification enhancement, the OpenDocument format MUST add complete
support for embedding ALL fonts used in the document within the document
file. WordPerfect had this feature for decades, and that is one of the
major reasons WordPerfect took so long to disappear from the market
place, even though it kept charging $400+ for its product. That one
little feature, combined with turning off the system wide setting for
auto-format-for-default-printer, made a WordPerfect document completely
portable.
First we have to remove the ugly/nasty/useless tab interface.
Then we have to make documents 100% portable.
Then we can add tabbed document divisions just like WordPro.
On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 19:28 +0100, John B wrote:
Dear Roland
My mistake, I thought that /[the brain dead//Microsoft//approach of
having each document as a tab]/ refers to Lotus Symphony which loads
each document in as a separate (big fat pointless) tab - as that is the
only word software program I know, that uses those tabs (hence, what do
I know!).
Whilst I might think Tabs / divisions are a must have, maybe, this
should be a bolt on in LibreOffice (for Smartsuite users) and not a
bloat on.
My eldest son, now uses Smartsuite (an MS convert) to swing proposals
around and he is also writing his 1st book. [chapter 1] [chapter 2]....
Actually, one of the things I would miss would be not to have the
ability to change the page settings in each division, how do people cope?
Calling all bolt on programmers!
regards
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 17/06/2011 16:43, Roland Hughes wrote:
Dear John,
uh-oh...that sounds like an ominous opening!<Grin>
Actually, the "they" I refer to is every other word processor on the
face of the planet.
I never abused/relied on the tab system as a document control
architecture. I used it to segregate out the portions of a writing
project. Each chapter had its own tab, various tabs had notes and
clippings from other sources, etc. You could re-arrange the tabs and
put together a perfect book by tagging which tabs printed and which
didn't. It was a mind blowing architecture.
I don't have problems finding client documents which are 20 years old.
I create a directory for each client. If I don't do any billable work
for that client in 6 years, I simply delete the directory during the
next OS/machine upgrade.
On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 16:17 +0100, John B wrote:
Dear Roland
It reminds me of that Guinness Ad on "Cold Guinness" where the barman
says "your the 15th person today I've told that there is no call for
Cold Guinness".
I remember the 1st time I saw Lotus Smart Suite, this chap had just 2
files - Private and Business, he opened up the private one and inside
were group tabs saying [+Gas], [+Electricity] etc - i thought "of
course", it was like a Eureka moment.
Ask any other software user to find a current client document from 6
months ago let alone 10, 20 years ago!; And of course if you have a
client called "Fred Bloggs" you don't have to think up new file names
each time you send a new letter such a
"fred_blogs_fax_17_06_11_reply_London_office".
I am assuming the "they" you refer to, is IBM
thanks
John B
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 17/06/2011 15:20, Roland Hughes wrote:
If you visit the bug report site, you will see I have filed several bugs
on this issue. They cannot implement WordPro tabs until they implement
WordPro windows for documents. Right now they have taken approach of having each document
as a tab.
On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 14:56 +0100, John B wrote:
Tom
Thanks - I have posted the request below today - I will let you know
if I get a response.
I note that on the new IBM Lotus Symphony Web site - this has to be the
most angered and fought for request (1000's), but IBM have now disowned
its own software in favour of making the new cut down 3 progs suit "not
compatible", OOo used to!, but LibreOffice have taken up the challenge
in as much as LO can read the files - although the original formatting
is a bit hit and miss.
>>>>>>>>>>>
[wish-list]
/There must be 10's of thousands of Lotus Smart Suite users who use
Lotus Wordpro who cannot move (locked in) to any other software because
of a brilliant internal tab filing structure within wordpro. This is
where you can put standard tabs inside Group tabs.
Because Libreoffice thankfully support Lotus Smart Suite documents (and
IBM no longer do), you would be the natural inheritor for all these folk.
At the moment I am not aware of any other software that even have tab
documents within a Word processor so you would be unique.
One tab can be for any amount of pages (also called a division).
The beauty of tab documents is that in one file you can have all the
documents for say one client, one book etc. laid out in say years +2011,
+2010 ..... +1995 or chapters etc. and inside (by clicking the +) the
group tab opens up and you can have inside other tabs for all that years
correspondence or headings or whatever etc).
Now by having them all in one file, then a document produced in say 2000
is not archived or deleted as every time a new document is added the
whole file is updated to the current date, so backing up by current date
massively improves.
I have files on current clients that go back to 1991, the "+" means that
it is a "group tab" and that there are other tabs inside (and maybe more
inside them) etc., Hence its an effective filing structure to handle
multi documents.
I have group tabs that go like this "+1990's"> "+1991"> "Contracts">
(then a single tab "12/03/91"
Hence, you can also go straight to a division, click on it and Print it
as a separate item. You can copy& paste, insert, you can move a tab,
(like making it the 1st or last page(s) in a document.
The problem now is that if a Wordpro document, fully tabbed with say 10
- 1000 Tabs and by transferring it to LibreOfice it just becomes an
unmanageable 10 to say 10,000 pages, with no structure.
Managing large documents or many documents over a long period of time
becomes achievable with Tabs (divisions)
I would have thought that this would be useful in any word processor.
Please consider this
Thank you
John Brassington
/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 10/06/2011 14:42, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
This guide might help?
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport
I think i would post as a normal bug but put "" at the start of the
subject-line (unless the guide has better advice!)
Regards from
Tom :)
________________________________
From: John B<johnb@email2.me>
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Fri, 10 June, 2011 12:20:01
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Feature request - area?
Is there an area where Feature Requests are posted?
John B
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