Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature request - Lotus Wordpro tabs

Dear John,

It will not work as a bolt on.  I really really REALLY thought IBM was
finally going to sort this out, since they have the ENTIRE WordPro file
specification.  The OpenDocument file format has to have many things
added to it in order to support tabbed document divisions.  Mainly, it
has to have XML to identify those divisions as completely separate "sub
documents" which only allow a small amount of things to carry over from
the parent/enclosing document.  Each "subdocument" has its own flags to
support current page number, print/hide, previous/next subdocs, etc.

Eliminating the existing tabs and replacing them with the Window menu
item IS only a programming change.  It doesn't require any change to the
file specification.

Between the above programming change and the tabbed document
specification enhancement, the OpenDocument format MUST add complete
support for embedding ALL fonts used in the document within the document
file.  WordPerfect had this feature for decades, and that is one of the
major reasons WordPerfect took so long to disappear from the market
place, even though it kept charging $400+ for its product.  That one
little feature, combined with turning off the system wide setting for
auto-format-for-default-printer, made a WordPerfect document completely
portable.

First we have to remove the ugly/nasty/useless tab interface.
Then we have to make documents 100% portable.
Then we can add tabbed document divisions just like WordPro.


On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 19:28 +0100, John B wrote:

> Dear Roland
>
> My mistake,  I thought that /[the brain dead//Microsoft//approach of 
> having each document as a tab]/ refers to Lotus Symphony which loads 
> each document in as a separate (big fat pointless) tab - as that is the 
> only word software program I know, that uses those tabs (hence, what do 
> I know!).
>
> Whilst I might think Tabs / divisions are a must have, maybe,  this 
> should be a bolt on in LibreOffice (for Smartsuite users) and not a 
> bloat on.
>
> My eldest son, now uses Smartsuite (an MS convert)  to swing proposals 
> around and he is also writing his 1st book. [chapter 1] [chapter 2]....
>
> Actually, one of the things I would miss would be not to have the 
> ability to change the page settings in each division, how do people cope?
>
> Calling all bolt on programmers!
>
> regards
>
> John
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On 17/06/2011 16:43, Roland Hughes wrote:
> > Dear John,
> >
> > uh-oh...that sounds like an ominous opening!<Grin>
> >
> > Actually, the "they" I refer to is every other word processor on the
> > face of the planet.
> >
> > I never abused/relied on the tab system as a document control
> > architecture.  I used it to segregate out the portions of a writing
> > project.  Each chapter had its own tab, various tabs had notes and
> > clippings from other sources, etc.  You could re-arrange the tabs and
> > put together a perfect book by tagging which tabs printed and which
> > didn't.  It was a mind blowing architecture.
> >
> > I don't have problems finding client documents which are 20 years old.
> > I create a directory for each client.  If I don't do any billable work
> > for that client in 6 years, I simply delete the directory during the
> > next OS/machine upgrade.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 16:17 +0100, John B wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Roland
> > >
> > > It reminds me of that Guinness Ad on "Cold Guinness" where the barman
> > > says "your the 15th person today I've told that there is no call for
> > > Cold Guinness".
> > >
> > > I remember the 1st time I saw Lotus Smart Suite, this chap had just 2
> > > files - Private and Business, he opened up the private one and inside
> > > were group tabs saying [+Gas], [+Electricity] etc - it thought  "of
> > > course", it was like a Eureka moment.
> > >
> > > Ask any other software user to find a current client document from 6
> > > months ago let alone 10, 20 years ago!; And of course if you have a
> > > client called "Fred Bloggs" you don't have to think up new file names
> > > each time you send a new letter such a
> > > "fred_blogs_fax_17_06_11_reply_London_office".
> > >
> > > I am assuming the "they" you refer to, is IBM
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > John B
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17/06/2011 15:20, Roland Hughes wrote:
> > > > If you visit the bug report site, you will see I have filed several bugs
> > > > on this issue.  They cannot implement WordPro tabs until they implement
> > > > WordPro windows for documents.  Right now they have taken  approach of having each document 
> > > > as a tab.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 14:56 +0100, John B wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Tom
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks - I have posted the request  below  today - I will let you know
> > > > > if I get a response.
> > > > >
> > > > > I note that on the new IBM Lotus Symphony Web site - this has to be the
> > > > > most angered and fought for request (1000's), but IBM have now disowned
> > > > > its own software in favour of making the new cut down 3 progs suit "not
> > > > > compatible", OOo used to!, but LibreOffice have taken up the challenge
> > > > > in as much as LO can read the files - although the original formatting
> > > > > is a bit hit and miss.
> > > > >
> > > > >    >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
> > > > > [wish-list]
> > > > >
> > > > > /There must be 10's of thousands of Lotus Smart Suite users who use
> > > > > Lotus Wordpro who cannot move (locked in) to any other software because
> > > > > of a brilliant internal tab filing structure within wordpro. This is
> > > > > where you can put standard tabs inside Group tabs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because Libreoffice thankfully support Lotus Smart Suite documents (and
> > > > > IBM no longer do), you would be the natural inheritor for all these folk.
> > > > >
> > > > > At the moment I am not aware of any other software that even have tab
> > > > > documents within a Word processor so you would be unique.
> > > > >
> > > > > One tab can be for any amount of pages (also called a division).
> > > > >
> > > > > The beauty of tab documents is that in one file you can have all the
> > > > > documents for say one client, one book etc. laid out in say years +2011,
> > > > > +2010 ..... +1995 or chapters etc. and inside (by clicking the +) the
> > > > > group tab opens up and you can have inside other tabs for all that years
> > > > > correspondence or headings or whatever etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Now by having them all in one file, then a document produced in say 2000
> > > > > is not archived or deleted as every time a new document is added the
> > > > > whole file is updated to the current date, so backing up by current date
> > > > > massively improves.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have files on current clients that go back to 1991, the "+" means that
> > > > > it is a "group tab" and that there are other tabs inside (and maybe more
> > > > > inside them) etc., Hence its an effective filing structure to handle
> > > > > multi documents.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have group tabs that go like this "+1990's">   "+1991">   "Contracts">
> > > > > (then a single tab "12/03/91"
> > > > >
> > > > > Hence, you can also go straight to a division, click on it and Print it
> > > > > as a separate item. You can copy&   paste, insert, you can move a tab,
> > > > > (like making it the 1st or last page(s) in a document.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem now is that if a Wordpro document, fully tabbed with say 10
> > > > > - 1000 Tabs and by transferring it to LibreOfice it just becomes an
> > > > > unmanageable 10 to say 10,000 pages, with no structure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Managing large documents or many documents over a long period of time
> > > > > becomes achievable with Tabs (divisions)
> > > > >
> > > > > I would have thought that this would be useful in any word processor.
> > > > > Please consider this
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you
> > > > >
> > > > > John Brassington
> > > > > /
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/06/2011 14:42, Tom Davies wrote:
> > > > > > Hi :)
> > > > > > This guide might help?
> > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think i would post as a normal bug but put "" at the start of the
> > > > > > subject-line (unless the guide has better advice!)
> > > > > > Regards from
> > > > > > Tom :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: John B<johnb@email2.me>
> > > > > > To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> > > > > > Sent: Fri, 10 June, 2011 12:20:01
> > > > > > Subject: [libreoffice-users] Feature request - area?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there an area where Feature Requests are posted?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John B
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
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-- 
Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions
(630)-205-1593

http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com
http://www.infiniteexposure.net

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