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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO in Business


Can a plug-in be made to save OOXML format for LibO for a short term solution?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Frank Esposito wrote:

>>> * It is ugly
>>
>> This is a very subjective call, so not worth consideration outside a "UX
>> needs
>> improvement in some areas"
>
>
> UX can make or break a product, just ask Steve Jobs and therefore IS worth
> consideration. Someone even brought up this point on the first conference
> call (sorry I cannot recall your name but you were correct)
>
>>
>>
>>> * It is slow
>>
>> Define slow, I have 3.2.1 on clients machines and is grease lightning fast,
>> certainly faster than opening up all 4 of MS applications at the same time.
>>
>>
> this is "subjective" as not everyone has the same machine as you or tour
> clients, I was merely summerizing the responses form my own personal polling
> of why people use M$ office over OO. performance is an issue, this is
> known. compared to MS, it is comparable, but they are the team on the field
> right now...
>
>
>
>
>>> * It is clunky
>>
>> Define "clunky" in specific terms
>>
>
> clunky and refined are in fact subjective terms, but once again Steve Jobs
> and his buddies over at Apple understand this.
>
> I wil try though:
> windows95: clunky
> OS X: not so much
>
> terminal:clunk
> gnome: not so much
>
> another example of clunky, I can insert page numbers by clicking 1 button in
> MSO,
>
> OO, not so much.
>
>
>
>> * It has issues with MS doc and docx files (yes I know MS formats in
>> an insane way and does not follow standards)
>
> Not as many issues as MSO has with ODF, and LibO/OOo is standards compliant
>>
>>
> yes but the world uses MSO so that point is moot if were are trying to get
> them to use LO/OO..... and the average user or business IT person usually
> does not even know what "standards compliant" even means. All they care
> about is their employment agency only accepts a resume in word format
>
>
>
> When someone using OO/LO tries to save in a docx format and gets this:
>
> [image: LibreOffice 3.png]
>
> hosted link of pic in case the pic does not come through:
> http://imm.io/1NCo
>
>
> they will not use LO/OO in the future.
>
> As a professional writer, I cannot use OOo because my clients only accept M$
> word docs, they don't care about standards, they care about what they can
> use to get their business done and most of them use MSO. And since we are
> trying to take their M$ world away form them, we have to play their game for
> now.
>
>
>
>>
>>> unrefined
>> Subjective again define
>>>
>>
> if you want people to use your product, you must take subjective ideas into
> account. look what refinement did for the iPhone
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>> As someone who has worked in corporate IT in the U.S., and now in
>>> ecommence for a major U.S. corporation,
>>
>> This is the problem, :) I'll get to this further on.
>>
>> not sure what you mean, is it a problem I work there or is corp America the
> problem (in either case I agree, nonetheless I am not sure your point)
>
>
>
>>
>>> here are my recommendations:
>>>
>>> * LO needs to match every single MS Office function, and then provide
>>> what MS Office is missing
>>
>> It does that already, Forms and PDF functionality just an example.
>>
>> not 100%, saving in MS format is huge,also there is no reliable grammar
> check (yes people in the U.S. use it) the review system is not as refined as
> MSO
> and as previously discussed in this list, there is no bibliography/reference
> manager, included in MSO 2007 and 2010, important for academia
>
>
>
>
>>> * The interface needs to become refined (think iphone refinement),
>>> maybe even adding the dreaded ribbon or option to switch between the
>>> two types)
>>
>> I agree with this, except for the ribbon. Iwould suggest that LibO/OOo
>> still
>> has greater market share than MSO2007/2010 ouside of Educational
>> institutions
>>
>
> I agree the ribbon is ugly (more subjectivity, sorry) and menus are better,
> but if we are trying to capture market from business users who just got used
> to the ribbon, it should be an option to have.
>
>
>
>>
>>> * MS Office filters and converters need to be perfected
>> "Perfect" is non achievable and a moving target
>>
>
>
> no but compatible should mean "compatible" and agian we are trying to take
> market form them, this is not a technical wish it is a marketing wish.
>
>
>
>>
>>> * Investigate a revision control system like such as Sharepoint or
>> Google
>>> docs
>>
>> This I agree with, I'd like to see a function in the installer of a
>> business
>> version that gives the option of calling up an install of O3 spaces
>>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Not sure why this, OOo is available in many more languages than MS and I'm
>> pretty sure LibO will be there soon as well, spell check works well as far
>> as
>> I can see, grammar checkers are bad voodoo and are more often wrong than
>> right, however they can serve a purpose. If you study document production
>> work flows by someone who is a professional at the game, not an IT person
>> who
>> rarely has any idea about producing richly formatted documents, you will
>> find
>> that grammar checkers are more often than not used as suggesters of
>> alternatives which a writer either ignores or adapts to suit their own
>> style.
>>
>
>
>
> yes i agree, but there are a few functions in the MSO gram. checker that are
> very good, but lacking in LO/OO. this is a sticking point for some,
> especially students.
>
>
>>
>> As for formatting tools, Stylist kicks the arse of any similar tool in any
>> version of MSO, once you have climbed the learning curve and unlearnt the
>> really bad habits that using MSO has created. The only change I would make
>> is
>> having stylist docked and open by default and on file>new a "select or
>> create
>> template" dialogue opens
>>
>>
>>
>
> the magic word you used is learning curve, business does not like to
> retrain, because that means money. A major point of using OO/LO is cost.
> matching what they know will make LO adaptability that much easier
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> We could institute some kind of feedback program such as the test
>>> pilot model that Mozilla uses
>>> with Firefox 4. We can also look at how MS destroyed Word perfect in
>>> market share to dominate the World Office suite business market.
>>
>> Read Clayton Christensen, MSO was cheaper and good enough and easy to get.
>> LibO/OOo is in fact in that same position right now. The tipping point is
>> coming, some would argue that in Europe it is already there and given MS
>> recent marketing, it seems they may agree .
>>
>>
> Agreed, but if TDF can hit 30% in the States, imagine the worldwide affect
> it would have for FOSS and M$ stockholders.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>> Then LO needs to innovate new features and stabilize its current
>>> feature set, this is how Firefox, and later Chrome won the browser
>>> wars (in my opinion at least)
>>
>> A browser is an entirely different beast, the only thing they share is the
>> fact they are software. It's like comparing going to the movies to driving
>> a
>> truck. Forget that, they are tools to specific audience
>>
>
>
> stop comparing apples and oranges when I am talking about fruit. it is the
> idea and motivation behind the idea I was referring to, not the actual
> product.
> moz is trying to make their product better by gathering feedback from people
> who are using their product in that very instance (if you have used the
> pilot extension you know what I mean)
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> The biggest barrier to adoption in business is the advocates themselves,
>
> I am sorry to say it is not as I have been screaming about OO since
> ver.1.0, yet many corps are still using MSO 2003 to this day.
>
> the barrier is what will be the most cost affective transition, does corp A
> switch to OO and ODF knowing their documents will not be compatible or do
> they stick with a product they have literally used for over a decade (and
> some place it is the same version for over a decade)
>
>
>
> Problem with OSS projects is we go after geeks, or the IT department,
>>
>
> yes and since the average user just wants their product to work and does not
> care about standards, they will use what they know. My brother for example
> will not upgrade to MSO 2007 because he knows 2003. OO? all he knows is it
> is different than what he is used to and does not have the time to relearn
> software; the menus are completely different and so is half the
> workflow...an example of the average user.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I tell you what, we must be doing something right.
>>
>> well when you only have 20% of the market by giving the product away and
> the 700$ suite has 60%, you need to do better.
>
> Android is a good model to look at, it is killing the iPhone and is open
> source, but they got the UI right, and, to take a quote form apple, it just
> works. This is what LO needs to do, work, for the avg. user for the CEO, for
> the IT guy
>
>
> and for the record, I am not a MS fanboy (as I write this on an ubuntu 10.10
> system in minefield4 prebeta8).
> The real longterm goal is to get the business world to adopt Oasis file
> formats. once that happens, OO will win more market
>
>
> FOSS forever!
> ciao
> -fe
>
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Follow-Ups:
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO in BusinessAndy Brown <andy@the-martin-byrd.net>
References:
[libreoffice-marketing] LibO in BusinessMarc Paré <marc@marcpare.com>
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO in BusinessFrank Esposito <frankesposito@gmail.com>
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO in BusinessGraham Lauder <yorick_@openoffice.org>
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO in BusinessFrank Esposito <frankesposito@gmail.com>
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