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On 27 April 2012 13:07, webmaster-Kracked_P_P <>wrote:

I have tried to keep up with this thread, but here is an issue I see with

With a certification program, you need to have a training program to teach
the person the required knowledge for the certification.

Traditionally yes, but with up to date competence based assessment -  the
preferred method of the European Credit System across all occupational
sectors and 27 countries - you can do it by providing workplace evidence.
This means the evidence of competence is provided from real tasks in the
work place rather than traditional classroom based courses and exams. Of
course there is scope to use both methods. This is relatively new so not so
well known yet even among some educators but it is a high priority for EU
funding to get it to work.

There can be show that a certification program could benefit users and
business alike, but how does a person learn all the needed knowledge that
will be tested in the certification program?

They do it by providing credible evidence to accredited assessors against
the specified assessment criteria related to learning outcomes. This can be
managed on-line so that it is not too bureaucratic but you do need trusted
people to act as assessors. It scales well though if you use the right

That is where it must start.  There must be some system created to educate
the user or the one who wishes to become certified.  There must be a
process where someone can learn all aspects of LibreOffice use and what it
can and cannot do.  There must be some text created to explain all the
possible functions in each LibreOffice module [Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw,
Math, Base, etc.] and give the user/reader clear knowledge on how to use
those functions and what they can do.  This information must be clearly
written and be complete, leaving nothing out.

That is a very inefficient way of doing it. What do you want the learner to
be able to do? Check they can do it in typical scenarios in their
workstream and independently verify it. This is why you need professional
people who know and understand how assessment works. It's no different from
expecting a non-coder to plan the coding of say svg compatibility for Draw.
They might get there in the end but they are likely to do it much less
efficiently than someone qualified and experienced in that field. Snag with
education is that everyone went to school so they all think they can do it

When you get the education system up and running, THEN you can start
testing people on how much knowledge they have gleamed from the learning

The key is, if you want to certify someone in a certain subject knowledge,

Not only knowledge, competence in performing. That is a significant
weakness in knowledge based testing. If it is just about knowledge, just do
a Google search :-)

you must teach them the proper knowledge that goes into the certification
itself.  If you want to have a "Certified Migration Professional" or
"Certified Professional Trainer", you must have the tools to educate the
person on what s needed to properly migrate to LO, or have all the needed
documentation for the "professional trainer" to use to educate and train
the public in using LO.

It is better to certificate transferrable knowledge and skills because you
can't afford to keep retraining people every time some facility changes.
Better to teach Word processing in the contect of LO Writer than
specifically just Writer. Besdies the standards for operating a WP are
already written so that further shortcuts the process and means you are
compatible with large numbers of others in determining things like levels
of competence and credit values in national frameworks. That is what the
EQF is for across European member states. It is also being referenced to by
many countries outside Europe.

Until all this education material has been developed, you cannot hope to
successfully certify a person in that knowledge.  How can we certify a
person if we cannot provide the knowledge base for which we are certifying

I really hope that one day TDF/LO had some certification process, but we
really need the tools to educate the user in all aspects of the use of LO
and how to migrate from the other office packages out there.  IMO, that
needs to be more than just a book or guide.  That needs to be almost a text
book for teaching a user how to use LO and how to do all the things LO can
do.  This must be an in depth material.

Right now, with the "rapid" development of LibreOffice versions, as the
document team knows all to well, you can write a comprehensive
documentation on version 3.4.x, then 3.5.x come out that changes a lot of
what is presented.  Then when the people finish writing all the changes for
3.5.x, 3.6.x is out and the process of rewriting the documentation is
needed again.  So, if you certify someone on how to use LO 3.4.x and 3.5.x,
and the certification last for 2 years, by the end of the first year, 3.6.x
and 3.7.x will be going strong before the first year is over and their
certification in knowing LO would not be based on the newest versions of
LO.  Since there seems to be a lot of changes between each line of LO, much
of their certified knowledge of what LO can do will be out of date before
the first year of certification is over with.

Well that is my opinion.

This is something to think about:
To get a group properly certified, you much teach that group all the
knowledge they need to be certified in.  That is what I learned while
studying for my 3 computer filed related degrees.

In principle, you are right, there has to be some sort of programme of
learning, the smart way to do that is to make the assessment system
integrate with competence measures involving self and peer assessment
independently verified. Its a lot less expensive, more flexible and faster
to develop. One reason I just went on and did it when I first proposed this
in the OOo community was that very few people in ths community understood
education well enough to grasp what I was trying to do so it was easier to
just do it independently. From these threads I think that is probably still
the case.


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