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Hello Robert,

The "group" aka the foundation, decided after much discussions with
service providers and experts on LibreOffice and
deployments and migrations to start this certification programme. It
goes way back to the days where most of the potential for migrations could not be fulfilled because potential
customers were either not confident on picking the right supplier for
such services or actually got in trouble when it realized it had been
sold some expertise the supplier didn't have. 

At least in Europe -but I also know it took place in other parts of the
world such as Asia- you had IT companies pretending to be experts in migrations that were able to win tenders and actually
never executed on the parts relevant to the expertise around 

At the same time there was a clear call from smaller IT companies to
gain some status and transparence on who in the business was doing what.
Some modest attempts to that happened during these years, but they were
clearly insufficient. But anyway you looked at this, the feedback from
customers and suppliers was clear: the ecosystem just was not able to
grow despite clear (and growing) demand and vendor/service provider
certification was requested. 

Now to your other question: should TDF focus on code development and
extensions?  Well it could and it is essentially what it is doing these
days. But honestly  we need to grow our reach and fix the mess that
years of interaction with business was not able to deal
with. You  seem to be wary of TDF making a profit here; TDF is indeed
not for profit -but does it mean it is for loss? Clearly, if we ever
make profits from certification (something I'm not sure of) it will at
least create resources we are in dire need of. We need funds for
infrastructure, marketing on a global level and many other things.

Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details:

Le jeudi 26 avril 2012 à 21:47 -0400, Robert Ryley a écrit :
This has nothing to do with agreement, but with evidence.  I did not ask
for a change of course.  I asked how the group decided it was competent to
judge others.

Second, from people in the bsd community, I have data that it costs close
to six figures to implement a cbt with the capable vendors.

Your nonresponsiveness about whose interest is furthered by this course of
action is disturbing.   Developers, writers, and testers who might
contribute now have to deal with self appointed third parties who use the
work, but will now imply people who don't pay up for a piece of paper, are

So whose interest does the project serve - developers or buyers?
On Apr 26, 2012 9:33 PM, "Italo Vignoli" <> wrote:

Robert Ryley wrote:

So, you have no answers to any of my observations, but feel
"competent" to declare that "certification"
will solve the problem?

It looks like you have already decided that we are wrong, as you are
going on with your assumptions. I have already answered, but it looks
like you consider my answer as wrong because they are not in line with
your thinking.

Again, you are free to think that we are wrong, and I am free to think
that you are wrong. Sometimes, you do not want to discuss when you feel
that there is nothing to discuss.

We are not going to change our course of action because you show up and
decide that this is not the right course of action. We have discussed it
in public: the program is online since August 2011.

We are answering a request of some of our members, both developers and
non developers, who are happy about the solution and are ready to
support the program.

We appreciate the fact that there might be people who do not agree with
our vision, but we know that we will never get to a global consensus.

This is my last message on the subject.

Italo Vignoli -
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP
skype italovignoli - gtalk

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