Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Questions and annotations to guide 2

Hi :)
Actually i made a typo in 3.  "There should not BE more..." ("be" in lower-case though.  I just 
wanted to emphasis my error).  

It still looks clunky to me.  Perhaps rewrite it to something like;  
<quote>
Entries that look like they are duplicates will probably break the indexing display in the UI even 
if those entries come from different parts of the document.  
</quote>

Regards from 
Tom :)  



On , Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
 
Hi :)
I tend to dislike "must not" too.  It's soo authoritarian that it makes me want to go against it or 
to find out why not by experimentation.  I prefer things like;
should avoid
try not to
please don't 
it's worth avoiding ...  because ... 
and other such less definite equivalents.  Even better is if you can flip it around to say the 
positive instead.   

3.  Looks clunky.  I do prefer the 3rd way of writing it but can now see the problem that Sophie 
was trying to avoid.  Perhaps 
<quote>
There should not more than one entry with the same contents in the help directory because it will 
break the index display in the help UI. 
</quote>
Perhaps instead of "contents" it might be better to use another word such as; text, value, errr i 
can't think of others but maybe Anne-ology might know a much better choice.  

In 5 & 6 i agree with Sophie.  It is less elegant but is less likely to create confusion.  When a 
number of tags get combined (as in "-rin") it almost looks like a word that might need to be 
translated whereas separately they are clearly tags/options.  People probably wouldn't try to 
translate "-r -i -n".  

There are tags that are entire words and those might need translating, for example with the rsync 
command there is "--partial" and "--progress" but
a)  Those have a double "-" sign
b)  Only translate if the under-laying OS is in a non-English language and only if the particular 
command has been translated
There are too many ifs there so it's probably worth avoiding those sorts of tags

7  "Escape character" might be written as "escaping character" without changing the meaning.  The 
grammar of the sentence might require an "ing", or else the term would need to be defined.  Devs 
and coders might have a more precise meaning for the term but i think the usage is sufficiently 
close and is readily understood by normal users without explanation.  


General notes

It is good to learn about built-in help available on the command-line and easy to look-up without 
going off and opening a web-browser but i agree with Sophie that it is all really a subject for 
other books and faqs and there are plenty of them already!  People still don't know all about all 
this and there is no reason they should.  I hadn't known of "info" until this post so thanks for 
that! :)  I generally use "--help" or "-h" to get a quick little "cheat sheet" or "quick reference 
card" about a command before running it.  For example 

sed -h

The "man" pages give a LOT more detail but it's awkward to keep them open while typing on the 
command-line itself (unless you open it in a new windows or tab).  Also it took me ages to realise 
that it was a "vi" editor and that i could escape by using 
:q
before that i was a bit stuck because even "Ctrl c" wouldn't get me back to the command-line and 
i'd have to close the "terminal console" / "command-prompt window".  Now i know about ":q" it's 
easier for me.  

man sed


Anyway, nicely done!  Especially with 3.  That was a good catch :)  The other questions were good 
to find out about, discuss and agree a general policy about so that was all good too. :D
Congrats and regards from 
Tom :)  





On Sunday, 13 October 2013, 9:46, Thomas Hackert <thackert@nexgo.de> wrote:
 
Hello Sophie, *,
On Sonntag, 13. Oktober 2013 09:42 Sophie wrote:
> Le 12/10/2013 19:59, Thomas Hackert a écrit :
> > On Freitag, 11. Oktober 2013 09:17 Sophie wrote:
[two new guides to Pootle]
> > >
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide
<snip>
> > 1. You have really often used "must not". I have changed some of
> > them to "have not to", "need not" or tried to circumvent them
> > otherwise ... ;) But there are still a lot of them in the text,
> > so it would be nice, if someone has another look at it ... ;)
> > I am not sure (my last English lesson is too far in the past,
> > sorry), but was it not mostly used in official texts, legal
> > instruments and the like?
>
> I used 'must not' because it's a 'must not' :)

O.K. Still ... Maybe we should either replace a couple of them to 
"to have not to", "need not to" or the like, as it sounds a little 
bit ... annoying IMHO ... ;)

But I still have this ticking "you should not use 'must not' in 
English texts" in the back of my head ... ;)

> >
 2. Below "3.3 <bookmark_value></bookmark_value>" you wrote
> > <quote>
> > Sometimes it happens that the word in the sources has a different
> > meaning in English but not in your language, like header and
> > title. If you find such entry like
> > <bookmark_value>Header;Title</bookmark_value>, you can just
> > remove it from your translation, as it will have no effect.
> > </quote>
> > (first point below the grey box). Are you sure, that you really
> > can remove it? I seem to remember, that either Pootle will spit
> > out an error message or there will be a problem during compiling
> > LO (but I may be wrong here ... ;) ).
>
> Yes, I'm sure, I've already done it (and already broke the index
> too ;)

Ah, O.K. I did not want to test it, in case it breaks anything ... 
;)

> > 3. There is also
 the following:
> > <quote>
> > There should not be two similar entries in the help directory
> > because it will break the index display in the help UI.
> > </quote>
> > . Should it not be
> > <quote>
> > There should not be the same entry more than one time in the help
> > directory because it will break the index display in the help UI.
> > </quote>
> > or
> > <quote>
> > There should not more than one entry with the same name in the
> > help directory because it will break the index display in the
> > help UI. </quote>
> > (or something like that ... ;) ) instead?
>
> For me it means the same, but if you prefer one over another,
> please change it. Your last proposition however could be difficult
> to understand, because 'name' is less precise.

O.K., but similar !=
 same ... ;)

<snip>
> > 5. Same paragraph: Just out of interest: Why do you link to
> > Translate Toolkit's online documentation? Would it not be more
> > helpful to mention "man poterminoloy" or "info poterminology" and
> > the like?
>
> I did so because most of the translators are not technical at all
> and will prefer to read the help on a web page than on a terminal

O.K.

> > 6. Thank you for "4.2 Using grep to find strings" :) Some really
> > interesting information in it, nice :) But why do you write every
> > option separatly? Like
> > <quote>
> > grep -r -i 'word' directory
> > </quote>
> > ? You could also use
> > <quote>
> > grep -ri 'word' directory
> > </quote>
> > without any problem (or better say: /I/ can use it with grep 2.14
> > under Debian
 Testing AMD64) ... ;) The same applies to
> > <quote>
> > grep -r -i -n 'word' directory
> > </quote>
> > , which you can shorten to
> > <quote>
> > grep -rin 'word' directory
> > </quote>
> > ... ;)
>
> same as above, I prefer they really understand what they do, so
> step by step with one option separated from the others, when you
> learn, it is easier to execute and remember. I could have given
> only one command line with all the parameters explained below, but
> when it's your first try, it is safe to do one thing after
> another.

O.K.

> > 7. Same place:
> > <quote>
> > If you have an escaping character in your search, like an
> > apostrophe (e.g. child's book in English or l'objet in French),
> > the simplest way to overcome that is to enclose the word
 to
> > search with double quotes instead of single ones, like in this
> > example: </quote>
> > What do you mean with "escaping character" here? Did you not mean
> > "characters to escape"?
>
> I mean an apostrophe, like I mentioned it, it is an escaping
> character that will be interpreted when you don't want it.

Maybe I do understand you wrong here, but an apostrophe is an 
punctuation mark (or diacritical mark, see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe), whereas an escape 
character would be a character, which is used in a shell, a program 
or the like (there are also metacharacters, see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacharacter ... ;) ), as it it 
explained in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_character ... ;) I 
have not heard "escaping character" before, but that does not mean 
anything ... ;)

> > 8. The last sentence from "4.3 Using sed to modify your files":
> > <quote>
> > you will find more information on the gnu site about the
> > delimiters, the regular expressions and syntax.
> > </quote>
> > . Why do you link to the online version of the manpage from sed,
> > when it is installed on your system ;? And you could use "info
> > sed" as well to get additional information ... ;)
>
> same as above. My position here is to help people who have never
> touched a terminal and they will feel more at ease reading out of
> it.

O.K. Though I was really pleased, when I found out, that there is 
such a nice "feature" like "man $program" or "info $program", and I 
had not
 to open a browser every time, when I had a problem with the 
usage of a program ... ;)

> > 9. Some of the text of the grey boxes with the examples are too
> > long, when I view them with FF 27.0a1 (2013-10-12) under Debian
> > Testing AMD64 and using a display resolution of 1024x768 (like
> > the box with
> > <quote>
> > #1 Verify Impress is running \n
> > #2 For Bluetooth user, enable "Preferences"-"LibreOffice
> > Impress"-"General"-"Enable remote control"\n
> > #3 For WiFi user, tick
> > "Preferences"-"LibreOffice"-"Advanced"-"Enable Experimental
> > Features" \n
> > </quote>
> > , where the last part of the second line (l"\n") is outside of
> > the box ... :( Is there a possibility to get the texts inside the
> > grey box (either resizing the box or splitting the lines or ...)?
> the box get the size of the
 sentence, so I'll split the sentence
> in more lines.

That would be nice, thank you :)

> > That was all, I have found so far ... ;) Have a nice evening
>
> Thanks a lot for your proof reading and suggestions :)

You are welcome :)
Have a nice day
Thomas.

-- 
"You have heard me speak of Professor Moriarty?"
"The famous scientific criminal, as famous among crooks as --"
"My blushes, Watson," Holmes murmured, in a deprecating voice.
"I was about to say 'as he is unknown to the public.'"
        -- A. Conan Doyle, "The Valley of Fear"
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