Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UX

Hi Cor,

nice to see you as well - has been a long time. So I hope everything is
fine on your side :)

Am Montag, den 31.08.2015, 23:36 +0200 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> Hi Christoph :) - Nice to see you!
>
> Hi all,
>
> Christoph Noack wrote on 20-08-15 15:39:
[...]

> > Am Mittwoch, den 19.08.2015, 13:48 +0000 schrieb Katarina Behrens:
>
> > As far as I remember earlier discussions, it exists for two
> > "reasons":
> >    1. Change printer / document print options without actually
> > printing
> >       something (e.g. for getting access to printer trays in page
> > format
> >       settings for non-default printers).
>
> This still is valid. And IMO in the proper place, in the file menu.

Well, it would be excellent to have recent usage data for that -
otherwise one could check whether it can be moved to the print dialog
(think of something like "Save Settings" functionality). This was
already an idea during printerpullpages-times.

> > > Then, things like tdf#92676 
> > > (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92676)
> > > happen --
> > > user goes to printer settings, sets something up, saves and
> > > thinks
> > > this is how his document's going to be printed, but it ain't the
> > > case, because the document/page settings will be used instead.
>
> As far as I am aware, the most problems by far are indeed with the
> experienced conflict between Page style (size/orientation) and
> Printer
> settings.
>
> > > There's of course this "use only paper * from printer
> > > preferences"
> > > checkbox that makes it possible to override document settings
> > > with
> > > printer settings, but how many users know about it?
>
> So, ugly UX hack (sorry for even daring to suggest ;) ):
> In the File > Print dialog, on the first Tab (General) add below the
> list Printer en > details, a button: "..printer settings in stead of
> document/page settings" leading to the fourth tab (Options)
> This
>  - shows where to find the desired behavior (well, not really - see
> Christophs remark below)
>  - indicates that there are document/page settings.
> Then
>  - on the fourth tab (Options) ad a button: "learn more on page
> settings
> and influence on printing) or something like that.
>
> I know, I'll burn in hell for this ugly suggestion, but... it
> directly
> shows what is needed to solve majority of printing problems.

Well, at least on my computer (LiBO 4.4.5.2 Fedora), the "use printer
settings" changes the printer's page orientation, but it keeps the
document page orientation. Thus, the layout gets messed up.

The rest of the suggestions can help if people are willing to spend
time on understanding how printing works - but I assume most people do
expect that printing should "just work". Hence the proposals (below) to
connect the settings in the different locations in LibO.

> > [...]
>
> Would be fine for me.
> Mind this allows (via page styles) directing different pages of one 
> file to different printers :)

Oh! I was rather thinking about selecting "the printer" for the
document and thus the different trays of this single printer.
Interesting new use case (just kidding *g*).

> >  * If possible, remove "File -- Print Preview...". Move required
> >    functionality (e.g. display facing pages) to the print preview
> > in
> >    the print dialog.
>
> Apart from missing details because the view is small, it totally
> misses
> the options that File > Print preview for Calc.
> So this is not going to work from that side.
> (Possibly there are also performance differences: current preview in
> File > Print <> File > Print Preview ?)

Since we now have all the GUI magic (layout manager), it should be
possible to solve the "view is too small" issue by enlarging the view
and optimizing the layout of the remaining dialog.

Regarding the missing details - that was meant by "move required
functionality" to the print dialog. What helps all the stuff in the
Print Preview, if (in many cases) the screen view won't match the
printed page?


> > === 2. Document Page Settings vs. Printer Page Preferences ===
> >
> > As the article by Microsoft suggests, we may not address all issues
> > related to page layout. Especially since LibO offers the capability
> > to
> > define numerous page layouts in the document - the printer
> > preferences
> > just offer one definition per print job.
> >
> > I miss the real needs by users, 
>
> I guess direct to another tray with same orientation, but different 
> type of paper..

[...]
> > Option #3: Re-arrange print dialog to directly contain and use
> > (e.g.)
> > page size and portrait settings.
> >  * Pro: Improved WYSIWYG
> >  * Con: Technical feasibility? Effort?
> >  * Details (examples for a UI control for page orientation):
> >     * If the document print range contains only "Portrait" pages,
> > pre
> >       -select "Portrait".
> >     * If the document print range contains only "Landscape" pages,
> > pre
> >       -select "Landscape".
> >     * If the document print range contains both Portrait and
> > Landscape
> >       pages, show "Automatic". (Document settings are used)
>
> Looks attractive. But indeed, may need much effort.
>
> >     * If the user changes the setting, the new setting is applied
> > to
> >       the whole print range (as if the user would have changed the
> >       document page layout, and its aligned with the printer
> > setting).
>
> This results in the same as tick "use only paper * from printer
> preferences".

As explained before (and maybe just trouble with the configuration of
my computer) - ticking the option doesn't work. The trick is to
harmonize document settings and printer settings (and maybe I have to
visualize that somehow).


> >       Per default, this setting is valid for the given print dialog
> >       session only. Per user demand, the setting can be applied to
> > the
> >       document settings (image something like a "make setting
> > sticky"
> >       appearing after the user changed the default selection).
>
> I would not support this.
> It may cause unexpected problems in the document.

Why? I shouldn't be the default. If applied, it is nothing different
than (batch-)changing the page orientation in "Format -- Page".

> And look at my UX-hack: that puts emphasis on showing how the
> printing
> actually works at the same moment that the user wants to change
> Portrait
> to Landscape.. What is the most faced problem.
>
> >     * Special case for Calc ("Print Selection"): "Automatic" will
> > pre
> >       -select the orientation that makes most sense for the given
> >       selection.
>
> Interesting..
> >     * Examples
> > [...]
>
> > === 3. Enable Proper Saving and Loading of Document Print Options
> > ===
> >
> > As previously explained, once the document print options are sorted
> > out, they should be properly saved and loaded.
>
> I miss an overview of (cant find easily) what isn't stored, and what
> settings influence it.

Besides the document I worked on during printerpullpages, there is no
documentation I'm aware of. For testing, I extracted the content of an
ODF document and look at the (I think it was...) settings.xml. This
file contains settings that match to the print options. The names give
clues what option is influenced.

Have a nice Sunday!
Christoph

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