Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UX

Hi Christoph :) - Nice to see you!

Hi all,

Christoph Noack wrote on 20-08-15 15:39:

> Am Mittwoch, den 19.08.2015, 13:48 +0000 schrieb Katarina Behrens:
> > Hello world, 
> >
> > I started this discussion, so it's about time I also contribute
> > something to it:
> >
> > > [...]
> >
> > The main issue I have with status quo is this duality between "File 
> > -> Printer settings" and "File -> Print -> $some_printer ->
> > Properties". In other words,  settings of the printer and
> > document/page-specific settings that can be (and often are) entirely
> > different.

Yep, printing is a complicated task.
With a new printer or in a print shop that I only visit occasionally, I
always seek advice for settings.

In LibreOffice, the 'order' to know (as far as I understand) is:

1 - Default printer for document  (File > Printer settings)

2 - Page settings in page style
  * page format and default paper tray for default printer

3 - Print-what options (File > Print > LibreOffice $Application
    (and Tools > $Application > Print )
  * hide/show certain content, color/bw, automatically inserted
    blanc pages
  (* but also 'print-where': [ ]paper tray from printer settings
    (same as in page style. I expect, options is General, and
    Page style has preference)  )
  (* and also 'print-how': [ ] brochure  )

4 - Print-how options (File > Print > Options, partly)
  * adaption of size, multi page

5 - Print-where options (File > Printer > Properties and
    File > Print > Options, partly)

> As far as I remember earlier discussions, it exists for two "reasons":
>    1. Change printer / document print options without actually printing
>       something (e.g. for getting access to printer trays in page format
>       settings for non-default printers).

This still is valid. And IMO in the proper place, in the file menu.

> > Then, things like tdf#92676 
> > (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92676) happen --
> > user goes to printer settings, sets something up, saves and thinks
> > this is how his document's going to be printed, but it ain't the
> > case, because the document/page settings will be used instead.

As far as I am aware, the most problems by far are indeed with the
experienced conflict between Page style (size/orientation) and Printer
settings.

> > There's of course this "use only paper * from printer preferences"
> > checkbox that makes it possible to override document settings with
> > printer settings, but how many users know about it?

So, ugly UX hack (sorry for even daring to suggest ;) ):
In the File > Print dialog, on the first Tab (General) add below the
list Printer en > details, a button: "..printer settings in stead of
document/page settings" leading to the fourth tab (Options)
This
 - shows where to find the desired behavior (well, not really - see
Christophs remark below)
 - indicates that there are document/page settings.
Then
 - on the fourth tab (Options) ad a button: "learn more on page settings
and influence on printing) or something like that.

I know, I'll burn in hell for this ugly suggestion, but... it directly
shows what is needed to solve majority of printing problems.

> It rather makes me think of: why should they? I quickly tested the use
> case above (changing the page orientation in the printer preferences)
> but Calc's output was unusable (because being cut-off).

> === 1. LibO Printing UI ===
>
> The LibO printing UI is cluttered and distributes (similar)
> functionality within different dialogs. Aim: One print preview,
> simplified access to print options.
> To me, this clean-up would require:
>  * Harmonize the document Print Options (e.g. "Print text as black")
>    from the printing dialog ("File -- Print... -- $option) and LibO
>    options dialog ("

See my #3 above.

>  * Remove "File -- Printer Settings...". Plus, to enable access to non
>    -default printer trays, add printer selection capabilities to the
>    page layout dialogs ("Format -- Page -- Page: Paper Tray").

Would be fine for me.
Mind this allows (via page styles) directing different pages of one file
to different printers :)

>  * If possible, remove "File -- Print Preview...". Move required
>    functionality (e.g. display facing pages) to the print preview in
>    the print dialog.

Apart from missing details because the view is small, it totally misses
the options that File > Print preview for Calc.
So this is not going to work from that side.
(Possibly there are also performance differences: current preview in
File > Print <> File > Print Preview ?)

> === 2. Document Page Settings vs. Printer Page Preferences ===
>
> As the article by Microsoft suggests, we may not address all issues
> related to page layout. Especially since LibO offers the capability to
> define numerous page layouts in the document - the printer preferences
> just offer one definition per print job.
>
> I miss the real needs by users, 

I guess direct to another tray with same orientation, but different type
of paper..

> so I haven't a clear solution preference - just options:
>
> Option #1: Remove page size and portrait settings from the printer's
> preferences.
>  * Pro: Easy to achieve
>  * Con: Things can still go wrong (e.g. printer settings by OS). We need
>    to make users aware of issues we can identify (e.g. wrong page format)
>    and inform them -> see idea of Info Bar in print dialog

Indeed, see my UX-hack before.

> Option #2: Extend #1 by access to document page layout options (like
> "Format -- Page...") via e.g. button
>  * Pro: Direct access to document options
>  * Con: Different page layouts different to understand

and the risk for changing a lot in the document, if applied without
proper thought..

> Option #3: Re-arrange print dialog to directly contain and use (e.g.)
> page size and portrait settings.
>  * Pro: Improved WYSIWYG
>  * Con: Technical feasibility? Effort?
>  * Details (examples for a UI control for page orientation):
>     * If the document print range contains only "Portrait" pages, pre
>       -select "Portrait".
>     * If the document print range contains only "Landscape" pages, pre
>       -select "Landscape".
>     * If the document print range contains both Portrait and Landscape
>       pages, show "Automatic". (Document settings are used)

Looks attractive. But indeed, may need much effort.

>     * If the user changes the setting, the new setting is applied to
>       the whole print range (as if the user would have changed the
>       document page layout, and its aligned with the printer setting).

This results in the same as tick "use only paper * from printer
preferences".

>       Per default, this setting is valid for the given print dialog
>       session only. Per user demand, the setting can be applied to the
>       document settings (image something like a "make setting sticky"
>       appearing after the user changed the default selection).

I would not support this.
It may cause unexpected problems in the document.
And look at my UX-hack: that puts emphasis on showing how the printing
actually works at the same moment that the user wants to change Portrait
to Landscape.. What is the most faced problem.

>     * Special case for Calc ("Print Selection"): "Automatic" will pre
>       -select the orientation that makes most sense for the given
>       selection.

Interesting..
>     * Examples
> [...]

> === 3. Enable Proper Saving and Loading of Document Print Options ===
>
> As previously explained, once the document print options are sorted
> out, they should be properly saved and loaded.

I miss an overview of (cant find easily) what isn't stored, and what
settings influence it.

Cheers,
Cor

-- 
Cor Nouws
GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28  A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6
- vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org
- volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org
- The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted