Re: [libreoffice-design] Color Picker : Tentative Design

Hi Mirek

2013/3/24 Mirek M. <mazelm@gmail.com>

> Hi Kévin,
> On the wiki page, I can only open the second mockup, the first tells me
> that it can't be displayed because it contains errors.
> My thoughts on the design below:
>
> I know this, we discored this during

the IRC Chat yesterday don't ask me why but the wiki do not wan't it. Go
there it worked better (the same version
http://ubuntuone.com/5dzsz5Lnu3ZuuTkU2HxYmG)

> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Kévin PEIGNOT <peignot.kevin@kpeignot.fr>wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> >
> > <Mirek> I would put the Old and New indicators in another place. As they
> > aren't click-able, it doesn't make sense to put them in the place that's
> > most accessible for a mouse -- they only increase the distance the mouse
> > has to travel to reach a clickable target. (In my proposal, these
> > indicators were shown below the picker, with only the old color shown
> > first and then the new color superposed on it as one hovered over it.)
> >         Done
>
> I would still prefer it if they were shown separately from the clickable
> area, e.g. in a balloon/tooltip.
> Right now, it's not visibly obvious that they are not clickable.
I don't agree. Except it would make the popover look more cluttered (my
thought), I think the "OLd" at least should be clickable : for example,
when you define  personal color, if you wan't a very close color to the
actual and made an error and would like to restart, instead of Ctrl+Z,
clicking on "Old" re-define the old color as the new one.


> > <Issa> New should be on the left and Old on the right.
> >         I don't really see why (for me, history (old) is on the left,
> > future
> > (new) on the right) but it's done;
>
> Perhaps this makes more sense for RTL cultures?
> New on the right makes more sense to me, not only because of the way my
> culture draws time, but also because it's more typical to have the constant
> part at the beginning and the variable part at the end.
As I said, I really don't care for this. Both places have good arguments,
but not enough to say it's definitively better than the other


> > <Issa> Since it is a pop-over and not a dialog the custom colors should
> > be applied immediately upon changing the current color. The window can
> > be closed when the focus moves away or using an ok button
> > <Mirek> As Issa said, "Since [...] button." An apply button would be
> > unnecessary in this case. (Actually, it would be confusing, as this
> > button would do nothing.)
> >         Done with a OK button. I precised in the explanation on the
> > mockup that
> > clicking "OK" or loosing focus just close the popover, as the color is
> > applied as soon as it's defined
>
> The "OK" button is still as confusing as an "Apply" button would be, as it
> still does nothing.
> If you feel there absolutely must be a button, make it say "Close".

In a lot of windows, we have "OK" "Apply" et "Close". "Close" close the
window without applying changes, so it's not a good choice, "Apply" apply
changes without closing, not the good choice too. "OK" apply and close. so
even if the color is already applied, it makes sense use it, as this just
definitively validate your choice.

So I don't agree at all with Close button


> > <Mirek> If we agree to have a gear button, it should really be a menu.
> > I'm not 100% sure that we need it for the first implementation, though.
> > <Issa> The theme creator dialog should be replaced with a drop down menu
> > for changing themes, possibly next to the theme colors label.
> >         I'm not sur about that : You do not change your theme so often,
> > The
> > popover is a fast access tool. More of that, seeing the M$ theme creator
> > window [2], this could take a lot of place. Not sure it's a good idea
> > having such a big popover
>
> You misunderstood what I said.
> I didn't mean having theme management in the pop-over. I meant that the
> gear button should be a drop-down menu, as it may grow to include more than
> one item.
you mean

a line just for theme managment ? would take lot of place I think, that we
don't have vertically

> Or, for the time being, we could only have a non-gear icon for theme
> management, but that icon would have to be labeled.
>
> > <Mirek> Also, it would be good if the "Palette" section of the pop-over
> > was designed to be able to carry other palettes than the default. Thus,
> > the section wouldn't have a separate area for grays, as few palettes
> > separate their grays like this.
> >         I put the grey bar on the left. I don't really think why palette
> > couldn't be tweaked, but I'm not sure this would be useful : for me
> > palette is there to present almost every color existing. if you need
> > personalized colors, the theme colors are there. As I answers to Issa
> > concerns, for the palette itself should be fixed (I mean, not easily
> > changeable)
>
> I disagree. We shouldn't design for one specific palette, but rather
> assume that a user might like to use a custom palette -- perhaps his
> company has a palette, perhaps he's working on Tango icons in Gnome and
> needs the Tango palette, ...
So, adding a button to import a palette ?


> > <Mirek> Please include a label of the color for the colorblind.
> >         Almost done. I didn't included the label for RGB and HSL, because
> > I
> > really don't see how we could decide the name of colors that have so few
> > diffenrences between them (except RGB of course, which is already at the
> > top, or we would have 300 red, 300 blue etc etc).
>
> We could assign a name to ranges in hue, saturation, and lightness.
>
> > About Issa's concerns:
> >
> > -Wouldn't using square tiles be more consistent and natural with the
> > desktop UI ?
> >         I don't know, the old theme is very square, for sure, but newly
> > introduced features (header/footer note etc) are not really. Personally,
> > I would keep rounded squares. (More of that, the Flat icon set, even if
> > not default, is designed rounded, as it follows Gnome design)
>
> Gnome uses slightly rounded squares.
Right, even if I don't like that. However, we don't design for Gnome, but
for LibreOffice, a cross nplatform software


> > -Wouldn't it be better if we use a color map/square for the HSL instead
> > of the wheel since it's already implemented and prettier in my opinion?
> >         Personally I prefer the wheel. Then I'm not sure what would be
> > the good
> > choice.
>
> Or perhaps use sliders, which I personally prefer?
Look the proposal, sliders are there. And we have a tab we wheel or color
table (still to choose)


> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Kévin PEIGNOT <peignot.kevin@kpeignot.fr>wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > I just thought about something related to the "Old/New" icons. On
> > desktop version, that's right it's better having that at the bottom is
> > it means less distance with the mouse. But on the tablet version, this
> > MUST be at the top of the popover ... Or you will hide it with your
> > hand while touching the popover to define the color. We have to keep
> > that in mind.
>
>
> Actually, on a tablet, there is no hover, so the "Old/New" previews are
> completely unnecessary there, which means it's fine to put them at the
> bottom.
You're right for palette or theme, but not for HSL etc : as you define, you
wan't to see them (while turning the wheel is an example). So I
definitively would put the "Old/New" preview on top for tablets.


>  THen, once we agree on the global design (actual mock
> > ups), I will make separates desktop (5x5mm squares, "New/Old" at the
> > bottom) and tablet (9x9mm as actual, but with "New/Old" at the top)
> > versions.
>
>
> Be aware that both of these are desktop versions, with the larger version
> appearing in tandem with larger icons. On certain desktops, such as Gnome
> and its derivatives, icons are large by default, and perhaps it might be a
> good idea to make them default on Windows 8+ in the future as well, given
> the OS's touch-first design. (However, it would be good to streamline the
> toolbars first.)
If you think gnome desktop or windows in desktop mode would be better with
big tiles, that's OK, but I don't agree, it take really a lot of place
(half the screen), so it means too much time with the mouse to go from the
top to the selected part


> About the Old/New icons: I would prefer it if we could pull them off
> without labels and show the color label on both instead. (Perhaps the new
> color could be labelled comparatively if it was similar to the old one,
> e.g. "darker red", "brighter red", ...)
COuld be a good idea but I think almost impossible to do ( what f you added
one to R

and G, and nothing to B ?

>  Initially, the pop-over wouldn't show any New color and, as the user
> would hover over a color, the New section would change dynamically while
> the Old section would stay the same, so there isn't really need to have
> Old/New labels. And if we decide we need them, they should be tiny, like
> the labels on the custom color sliders.
Yes I see that. Personnaly I think we need them, has comparative texts, As
I said would be too hard to do., and useless (if you go brighter and
brighter on red, you say brighter red the first time, but what then ?

> On the topic of labels: the "Theme colors" and "Recent colors" labels
> should also match the style of the small labels in custom colors. (The
> style of the label comes from Gnome.)
will change that

> Lastly, please align everything to a grid, keeping consistent spacing. The
> padding on the theme colors panel seems uneven.
They are already, but that, we don't care. these are are mockup, Mockups
don't even have (and shouldn't to be exact) use a theme (here, it's more or
less gnome one), it should be almost black and white, as if done wit
pencils, as you could do with balsamiq (see there to see what I mean
https://www.mybalsamiq.com/). Of course the real version have to be aligned.

Kévin

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