Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference

hi

i'm really sorry for replying so late, i've been completely absent from
the mailing list for the last days.


> Your comments were addressed to Bernhard, but you mentioned my proposal 
> so I hope you don't mind me interjecting here?
> Forewarning: My Emails are long. I rant. I'm sorry. Really! =(

np :)

> On 5/27/2011 3:32 AM, Tobias Bernard wrote:
> > > I like the way you reused the triangle for the "A" - and the rest of the
> > > line fits very well with the triangle due to the special font you used.
> > >
> > > Together with the large triangle at the upper right and the tight
> > > connection among the lines of text it provides an impression of compact
> > > power and strength.
> > >
> > > I like this kind of logos - but what they convey is different from the
> > > feeling I get when looking at the LibreOffice logo and branding.
> > >
> > > For me LibreOffice is light and open. It wants to be inclusive and
> > > really "libre". I don't know if you understand what I mean.
> > sorry, but not really :)
> > i guess "light" means "big spacee between objects" and maybe "light
> > backgrounds" or "thin fonts", but i don't really understand what you
> > mean with "inclusive and really libre".
> I can understand your stance too, because having a "Design language / 
> Visual culture" described in words is rarely effective.
> People (aka: us) will use words like "open" and "libre" which are more 
> /concepts/ than /physical attributes/.
> That leaves things up to interpretation, and as a result of that, 
> misinterpretation.
> Usually you can look over the existing material to understand a visual 
> culture, but sadly we don't have much of that.
> So I guess right now we all have an idea of how the brand will manifest, 
> but because we all have different tastes,
> the idea will vary from person to person. Obviously for a brand, that is 
> counter-productive. A single vision is required.
> It took some time, but we reached a vision and have been rolling with it 
> unenunciated. More on that in a sec...
>
> I don't have a solution really, I'm just whistling-dixie and hoping 
> /you/ understand that /I/ understand our dilemma.
> But I've been meaning to clarify our "Design language" for quite some 
> time so everyone can see, via example, what we said we were aiming for.
> This is even more important now that we have so many new members. I will 
> make time for that soon! I promise.
> (Bernhard: what I envisage for this is a book/pdf, explaining our 
> Design-approach, values and aesthetic. Will that work?)
>
> I can understand your qualms because I went through it for 
> OpenOffice.org where I struggled, for what seemed like years, to 
> understand their visual culture.
> And it took along time before I got it. That could have been eased by 
> some sort of "style guide" (which is what I propose).
+1 for a style guide!!

> But in the mean time, I can only use words to describe what I mean, but 
> I find it helpful to look at it this way;
> We agreed some time ago that we wanted to cast off the "shiny, 
> artificial, techy look" in favour of something more honest and friendly;
> PAPER gave us the "feeling" we wanted to convey, it is natural/organic, 
> simple and friendly.
> It has warmth:texture/earthly feel
> It is welcoming:open space
> It has possibilities/promise:empty contents, room to create
> It is familiar:affordable/non-discriminant of wealth
> It is part of the world:sustainable/organic

> > > Our branding - the logo with bold green and regular grey letters, the
> > > document symbol and icons with rounded corners and small borders as well
> > > as the Scatter motif - creates a certain branding language. I'd like to
> > > see this language and the "look-and-feel" it provides be consistent
> > > among all the official design being used to represent LibreOffice.
> > >
> > > Even if you used the colors and the font of our branding, your design
> > > doesn't match exactly what I think is important to keep our design
> > > consistent.
> > what i don't understand too, is why other proposals for this logo fit
> > the branding better, e.g. nik's proposal doesn't use the same colors the
> > logo uses, and also a different font.
> You're quite right here =S, I used a different typeface than our 
> LogoType (even the name of which escapes me at the moment).
> I see too many deficiencies in that typeface to use it for body text. Or 
> promotional material.
> I think using it because it is open-source is too much of a compromise 
> to the visual quality of our work.
>
> I found another public-domain free-for-distribution typeface to use for 
> my Design.
> The difference between the typefaces we chose was that my typeface is a 
> simple sans-serif typeface with no exceptional character other than 
> refined geometric shape.
> Your typeface choice has a very strong character, and while it looks 
> GREAT, it suggests techy-savvy-futuristic-stylistic.
> Using it would fundamentally shift the way we look to the public, geeks 
> might love it, moms might hate it, CEOs might dismiss it, Linotype might 
> buy it!
uhmm... i guess you're right ;)
the main reason i used it is because it looked good with the libo
triangle as "A"

> I think we should aim for something neutral rather than something cool.
> That cool thing might age faster than expensive cheese
>  and leave us with 
> dated looking collateral, and a bad smell. =) ... =(

good one ^^

> So while I like the typeface you used, I don't think it fits well with 
> the non-techy look we're going for.
> That isn't a criticism, it's just clarification and I hope it was 
> helpful. ? =)

yes :)
however, i still think it would be cool to use the triangle as part of
the word, not just for conferences but in general for libo designs...

> I've been meaning to raise the issue of Type for ages but it never looks 
> like a good time.
> But that time is coming soon. Stay tuned. I believe a thread occurred 
> not too long ago about this that I couldn't join at the time =(
>
> > concerning the eiffel tower, i think it is really overused. EVERYTIME
> > something takes place in paris or even in france, you can be sure there
> > will be he eiffel tower somewhere.
> > i would like to go for something new instead, such as the libo triangle
> > in the word "paris" or another idea.
> Yeah I know it's predictable, =)
> But I think it's used because it easily communicates the location at a 
> glance to everyone.
> It's iconic. It doesn't matter that we are tired of it, it matters 
> whether it is clear.

btw have you seen the logo for the G8 conference in france:
http://www.g20-g8.com/g8-g20/g8/english/home.18.html

just what i said^^

> I smile a smile so wide it could open portals whenever I see the Sydney 
> Opera House on overseas materials, maybe that's just me =)
> > it could be an idea for future conferences to always use the triangle
> > instead of one letter.
> >
> > generally, i would use that triangle more often in libreoffce-designs.
> > the motif was a good start, but this would be a great occasion to
> > establish it even more.
> >
> > another thing i think is important is that we have one general logo for
> > conferences ("libreoffice conference") and then a "localized" part of
> > logo ("paris 2011") that changes for every conference.
> Totally agree with you amigo!
> > tobias
> I genuinely hope I came off sounding helpful rather than smug above,
> because I really want to clarify this so we can all be on the same page. 
> It wasn't so much of an issue before because all the people that 
> participated in the early discussions were doing most of the work ('twas 
> a small team). But many poeple have joined since and we haven't got 
> anything ready to give everyone new a run-down on what we discussed. I 
> anticipated that we hadn't done a good enough job articulating what the 
> LibO "style" was and that it would bite us in the posterior. But that is 
> largely a result of lack-of-time rather than lack-of-care!
>
> A solution, (pending both approval and demand), is coming!
> ... If I WASN'T helpful, well, just delete this and pretend I didn't say 
> squat! =)
>
> -Nik

since we now have a logo for the 2011 conference, we have time to
discuss a general logo for conferences and for example the
"triangle-letter"-idea or the font stuff.

tobias


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