Re: Platform Independent vs. Platform Specific Behavior (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Take inspiration from Lotus Symphony ?)

2011/4/27 Christoph Noack <christoph@dogmatux.com>:
> Hi Scott!
>
> You asked a tough question ... something we struggled quite some time
> within OpenOffice.org. So the question is not _if_ we apply platform
> specific elements ... the question is rather what we can share accross
> all platforms, because there is no reference implementation.
>
> Some examples:
>      * Toolbar color-picker
>      * New "Slide layout" drop-downs
>      * Slide sorter in Impress
>      * Print dialog (on some platforms, there is no reference
>        implementation)
>
> To me, this should be something that should be agreed on ... with the
> development and marketing to define a "degree of freedom".
>
> It's already part of the WhatWeNeed list, I've mentioned earlier ...
> Collect, clarify and document fundamental questions [...]:
>        "Platform specific" (respect the platform interaction
>        guidelines ... e.g. like Mozilla Firefox) vs. "Platform
>        independence" (work the same way on any platform ... e.g. like
>        web sites)
>
> Is this what you had in mind? Would you be interested in driving this
> effort (the item "Clarify Marketing Questions")?
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#Knowledge_and_Requirements
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 27.04.2011, 10:49 -0600 schrieb Scott Pledger:
> > My only concern when asking this question is the implementation of any kind
> > of a graphical look and feel - layouts would be the same across platforms,
> > but should the look and feel (things such as the coloring/graphics of the
> > application) apply the user's system theme or whether the coloring and
> > graphical feel of LibreOffice should be the same across all platforms in
> > addition to the layout or if the layout should merely implement the user's
> > native look and allow the system to apply whatever its theme is.
>
> Just one addition - I usually refer to "look" as the visual style, and
> "feel" as the behavior which also includes the workflows of the
> software.
>
> > Yours Truly,
> > Scott R. Pledger
>
> By the way, although we don't get any statistical evidence for users, I
> really like these small surveys ... thanks!
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 06:53, Daniel Merker <daniel.merker@wayne.edu>wrote:
> >
> > > 2011/4/26 Scott Pledger <scottpledger2005@gmail.com>:
> > > > Purely out of curiosity, how many people here prefer that the user's
> > > > default environment theme (GTK, Qt, etc.) be applied to LibreOffice
> > > > versus how many would rather see LibreOffice get its own look
> > > > independent of the desktop environment?
> > >
> > > > From a Core UI stance, LibO should have a consistent look across all
> > > platforms; for example, where the toolbar is, what is under each menu, how
> > > use cases are performed. The outer shell should conform to the standard of
> > > the platform; for example, where the max/min/close buttons are, what order
> > > those buttons should appear. IMHO, when you try to please everyone with
> > > different versions, in this case based on platforms, of a UI, you tend to
> > > please no one....
>
>
>
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I think there are two points to consider, with a bit of "grey scale" in between.
On one hand, functionality. On the other hand, aspect.

Functionality is about how the software works, and here we have some
freedom: we cannot compare a word processor with a web browser, so if
a KDE user navigate the web with konqueror but write their documents
with Writer, the fact that both programs behave different will not be
a problem. Printer dialogue is different? OK, as far as it works, no
problem...

Then, the aspect: if you will be eight hours in front of the screen,
at least you want to look at something that it is "nice". From this
point of view, LibO picking the widget colours and icons from your DE
is something good.
(At this point something to consider is LibO using the freedesktop
standars on icon naming so it can use as much as possible the icons
from the DE... no idea if this is feasible, I'm just thinking aloud)

Then, you have the grey scale: for example, the LibO's native file
picker is just terrible, not only because ugly but mainly because it
do not gives you the possibility to set bookmarks. In that case, the
possibility to use the DE file picker is something good too.

But here we arrives to a problem: openSUSE and other distros (I just
read about chackra compiling LibO without a single GTK bit) delivers a
LibO version that enables the kde4 plugin for the vcl system used by
LibO to draw the interface. So, with openSUSE's LibO you have the kde4
file picker... at the cost of a really bad visual integration: the
plugin (which is not compiled for the "official" LibO version) is not
quite ready yet and have problems like excessive repainting, random
performance lost, etcetera.
If you delete that kde4 plugin LibO will use the GTK one instead, and
GTK apps looks perfectly on KDE4 if you use an appropriate widget set
like qtcurve.

So? I dunno, as Christoph said this is a tough question.

Cheers
Ricardo

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