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I have only a couple trvial macros (that I wrote) and gDocs_2,3.1 extension
which has a custom toolbar.  the "ghost" buttons do not appear anywhere on
the tools-customize menu, so I can't tell you what commands they are
associated with.  I just noticed that they are momentarily enabled when I
load a document, but that little "flash" is too brief to allow me to see any
of their detail.  They're really mysterious, those buttons.

No doubt, disabling the "Save" button provides the kind of "feed-back" you
describe, but what's the point of that?  It seems to me that it's good to
encourage users to save more often (even if the save is sometimes
unnecessary).  Penalizing the user for doing that sort of thing makes no
sense at all.

I am surprised you don't see the "close document" button on your Mac, but if
you don't, you don't.


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Jaron Kuppers <> wrote:

Hi James,

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:54 AM, James A. Schulz <


No, I don't see anything in the "new features" that addresses the
listed.  Let me try again:

1.  The "ghost" icons I described in my original post can be see at:

The picture is helpful.  My PC is dead at the moment but I tried to find
same issues with the Mac version of LibO.  Unfortunately, I can't duplicate
that problem.  Additionally, I can't even find those icons in the standard
toolbar icon set.  Three questions:
1) Do you have any Macros installed?
2) Do you have custom toolbars?
3) What commands are the buttons associated with? (Go to

2.  Create a new text document, type something, save it.  No press the
ALT-F(ile) key combination.  Notice that the "Save" item on the File Menu
disabled.  This means that if you are a user habituated to ALT-F-S, you
up "stuck" in the File Menu and you have to press ESC to return to your
document.  (Yes, I know that users habituated to CTRL-S don't have this
problem, but that's not the point.)  Why penalize users by requiring this
extra key-stroke just because they tried to save the current document
it didn't need saving.  Don't we want to encourage even such
over-conscientious users to save whenever they happen to think of it.
writing is an on-again-off-again sort of thing.  One spends a good deal
time just staring at whatever paragraph happens to be on the screen at
moment.  So the phone right, and you come out of that chance and before
answer the call, you press ALF-F-S just in case you hadn't thought to
before you went into your trance.  And when you do that (i.e. press
you end up stuck in the menu (and you are annoyed).  MS Word does not do
this.  WordPerfect never did it.  Why must writer do it.  The right thing
never to disable the "Save" item.  The system can avoid wasting its time
simply ignoring the unnecessary save command without "punishing" the user
for issuing it.

I believe the reason LibO disables save is to provide a means of feedback
the user that indeed their document is saved.  I agree that it is unfair
that the users that use ALT-F-S get "stuck" when they go to save since the
command is disabled when a document is saved.

3.  Open a new writer document.  Notice that the window has the usual "X"
window close button, but below that, in an otherwise empty bar that runs
across the screen, there is another, smaller "x' that closes only the
document.  Now open a second document.  In this new window, there is only
the "X" window close button (i.e. the document close button is not where
be seen).  True, using the window close button in this second window
you to the first document, but why show this inconsistent interface, i.e.
why not make all document windows identical?.  Of course, if LO would
to (in my opinion) the vastly preferable Multiple Document Interface,
redesign would likely solve this problem.

Once again with my PC on the fritz I cannot duplicate this issue.  I
I understand what you are talking about though.  I agree that there should
be consistency:
1) No documents have "close" buttons
2) All documents have "close" buttons

Hopefully someone with a PC can duplicate the toolbar problem but please in
the interim let me know what those buttons are.


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