RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Elements of Libre Office writer document not accessible to Orca screen reader.

It sounds to me like the best thing to do will be to just write off the
Symphony code and just do it from scratch.  I know it's awfully tempting to
just sit back and wait for the issue to finally resolve itself somehow and
just reuse code others have written but, that could take years and years
and, in the meantime, there are accessibility needs that just don't get
addressed for fear of wasting time duplicating what has already been done.
So, then, you have twice as much time spent on it.  First, you have the time
to actually code the stuff but, on top of that, you have all the time that
was wasted waiting around for the whole symphony conundrum to shake itself
down and resolve itself a thing which, let's be honest, may never truly
happen.  For better of for worse, MS Windows has a user community which is
larger than that of Linux or Mac and any other OS Libreoffice runs on.  It
may even be bigger than that of all these other OS's combined. That's a
pretty big targeted audience that isn't having its needs met.  While
SOFTWARE freedom is being considered, user freedom to avail oneself of the
software one wants to use is given low priority.

Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:24 AM
To: Alex Midence; Dattatray Bhat
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; sagun baijal; Leena Chourey
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Elements of Libre Office writer
document not accessible to Orca screen reader.

Hi :)
I think the BoD have been working on trying to get the Symphony code that
was given to AOO but at that layer of the organisations there seems to be a
lot of tension and arguments between the projects.  Down here we sometimes
find people working on both projects at roughly the same time or bouncing
between the 2.  

If the LO devs start working on accessibility issues then their coding is
likely to be a rough duplicate of the Symphony coding and end-up being a
waste of their time (if we do ever get the Symphony stuff) or end-up with
Apache taking us to court or (more likely) some grumbly place in-between.  

Devs generally get on with stuff that appeals to them and walking into a
political & possibly legal minefield is not attractive.  

The question is do we;
1.  make it more attractive (how?  Are there some "Easy Hacks"?  Could
anyone here do bug-triaging and identify some?) 2.  deal with issues and
hassle the BoD 3.  make it even less pleasant for the devs to continue
dodging the issue errr, hopefully someone has a better option!  

Regards from
Tom :)  





> ________________________________
> From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@gmail.com>
> To: Dattatray Bhat <bhatdv@gmail.com>
> Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; sagun baijal 
> <sagunbaijal@gmail.com>; Leena Chourey <leenagour@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012, 14:03
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Elements of Libre Office writer
document not accessible to Orca screen reader.
> Wow.  That long?  What, exactly, is the a11y priority for Libreoffice?
> Meaning, waht all gets looked at, attended to and discussed prior to 
> accessibility by persons in charge of projects and development goals?
> We are nearing the end of q3 in 2012.  This stuff was submitted near 
> the end of q1 in 2011.   Is all this stuf hard to code?  What is the 
> approximate cost in man hours and such that goes into this?
>
> Alex M
>
> On 8/30/12, Dattatray Bhat <bhatdv@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Navigator feature in LibreOffice is not quite convenient for 
> > visually disabled users who use the Orca screen reader. Suppose I 
> > want to navigate to previous or next heading. This is what I do. If 
> > there is an easier way, please let me know.
> >
> >     1. Set up Navigator to traverse headings (5-6 keybindings)
> >        Press F5 to start Navigator
> >        Press F6 4 times (or Shift+F6 once) to activate Navigator 
> > window
> >        Press Tab to go the list box section
> >        Press Right to expand Headings node
> >        Press Down to go to first heading label
> >     2. From current heading, go to next or previous heading (4-5
> >     key-bindings)
> >        Press F6 4 times (or Shift+F6 once) to activate Navigator window.
> >        Press Tab to go to list box section
> >        Press Up or Down to to go to previous or next heading label
> >        Press Enter to go to previous or next heading
> >
> > If structural navigation feature of Orca worked in LibreOffice, I 
> > would be able to navigate to previous or next heading with a single 
> > key-binding. But it doesn't work;  due to some LibreOffice bugs. I 
> > submitted detailed bug reports (listed below) including screen shots 
> > to LibreOffice bug tracker in March 2011; but there is no progress so
far.
> > 35105     A heading in writer document doesn't expose ROLE_HEADING to 
> > AT-SPI.
> > 35107     A hyperlink in writer document doesn't expose correct role 
> > and URL to AT-SPI.
> > 35110     A list box in writer document doesn't expose correct role 
> > to AT-SPI.
> > 35111     A combo box in writer document doesn't expose 
> > ROLE_COMBO_BOX to AT-SPI.
> > 35112    A section in writer document is not visible to AT-SPI.
> > 35129     A spin button in spreadsheet doesn't expose 
> > ROLE_SPIN_BUTTON to AT-SPI.
> > 35652     AT-SPI accessible tree omits objects which are not visible 
> > on the screen.
> > 35654     A writer document doesn't implement the Collection 
> > interface of AT-SPI.
> >
> > Can somebody look into these bug reports please?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > --
> > Dattatray Bhat
> >
> > --
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