Date: prev next · Thread: first prev next last


Hi :)
+1  

But from the devs point of view i think they think the Symphony stuff could just happen tomorrow.  
Murphy's Law suggests that it wont happen until just after they have invested an annoying amount of 
time and resources into duplicating the effort but to me that means it's got to be time to push at 
TDF and encourage the devs to start working on accessibility stuff now.  


I think 'our' devs would do a better job and the results would be the envy of other projects.  THe 
Symphony stuff probably has a lot of java dependancy and legacy stuff that we would be better off 
without.  Plus we have more experience of what NOT to do and wrong directions worth avoiding.  


Regards from
Tom :)  






________________________________
From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@gmail.com>
To: 'Tom Davies' <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Dattatray Bhat' <bhatdv@gmail.com> 
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; 'sagun baijal' <sagunbaijal@gmail.com>; 'Leena Chourey' 
<leenagour@gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012, 18:20
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Elements of Libre Office writer document not accessible 
to Orca screen reader.

It sounds to me like the best thing to do will be to just write off the
Symphony code and just do it from scratch.  I know it's awfully tempting to
just sit back and wait for the issue to finally resolve itself somehow and
just reuse code others have written but, that could take years and years
and, in the meantime, there are accessibility needs that just don't get
addressed for fear of wasting time duplicating what has already been done.
So, then, you have twice as much time spent on it.  First, you have the time
to actually code the stuff but, on top of that, you have all the time that
was wasted waiting around for the whole symphony conundrum to shake itself
down and resolve itself a thing which, let's be honest, may never truly
happen.  For better of for worse, MS Windows has a user community which is
larger than that of Linux or Mac and any other OS Libreoffice runs on.  It
may even be bigger than that of all these other OS's combined. That's a
pretty big targeted audience that isn't having its needs met.  While
SOFTWARE freedom is being considered, user freedom to avail oneself of the
software one wants to use is given low priority.

Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:24 AM
To: Alex Midence; Dattatray Bhat
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; sagun baijal; Leena Chourey
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Elements of Libre Office writer
document not accessible to Orca screen reader.

Hi :)
I think the BoD have been working on trying to get the Symphony code that
was given to AOO but at that layer of the organisations there seems to be a
lot of tension and arguments between the projects.  Down here we sometimes
find people working on both projects at roughly the same time or bouncing
between the 2.  

If the LO devs start working on accessibility issues then their coding is
likely to be a rough duplicate of the Symphony coding and end-up being a
waste of their time (if we do ever get the Symphony stuff) or end-up with
Apache taking us to court or (more likely) some grumbly place in-between.  

Devs generally get on with stuff that appeals to them and walking into a
political & possibly legal minefield is not attractive.  

The question is do we;
1.  make it more attractive (how?  Are there some "Easy Hacks"?  Could
anyone here do bug-triaging and identify some?) 2.  deal with issues and
hassle the BoD 3.  make it even less pleasant for the devs to continue
dodging the issue errr, hopefully someone has a better option!  

Regards from
Tom :)  





________________________________
From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@gmail.com>
To: Dattatray Bhat <bhatdv@gmail.com>
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; sagun baijal 
<sagunbaijal@gmail.com>; Leena Chourey <leenagour@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012, 14:03
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Elements of Libre Office writer
document not accessible to Orca screen reader.

Wow.  That long?  What, exactly, is the a11y priority for Libreoffice?
Meaning, waht all gets looked at, attended to and discussed prior to 
accessibility by persons in charge of projects and development goals?
We are nearing the end of q3 in 2012.  This stuff was submitted near 
the end of q1 in 2011.   Is all this stuf hard to code?  What is the 
approximate cost in man hours and such that goes into this?

Alex M

On 8/30/12, Dattatray Bhat <bhatdv@gmail.com> wrote:
The Navigator feature in LibreOffice is not quite convenient for 
visually disabled users who use the Orca screen reader. Suppose I 
want to navigate to previous or next heading. This is what I do. If 
there is an easier way, please let me know.

    1. Set up Navigator to traverse headings (5-6 keybindings)
       Press F5 to start Navigator
       Press F6 4 times (or Shift+F6 once) to activate Navigator 
window
       Press Tab to go the list box section
       Press Right to expand Headings node
       Press Down to go to first heading label
    2. From current heading, go to next or previous heading (4-5
    key-bindings)
       Press F6 4 times (or Shift+F6 once) to activate Navigator window.
       Press Tab to go to list box section
       Press Up or Down to to go to previous or next heading label
       Press Enter to go to previous or next heading

If structural navigation feature of Orca worked in LibreOffice, I 
would be able to navigate to previous or next heading with a single 
key-binding. But it doesn't work;  due to some LibreOffice bugs. I 
submitted detailed bug reports (listed below) including screen shots 
to LibreOffice bug tracker in March 2011; but there is no progress so
far.

35105     A heading in writer document doesn't expose ROLE_HEADING to 
AT-SPI.
35107     A hyperlink in writer document doesn't expose correct role 
and URL to AT-SPI.
35110     A list box in writer document doesn't expose correct role 
to AT-SPI.
35111     A combo box in writer document doesn't expose 
ROLE_COMBO_BOX to AT-SPI.
35112    A section in writer document is not visible to AT-SPI.
35129     A spin button in spreadsheet doesn't expose 
ROLE_SPIN_BUTTON to AT-SPI.
35652     AT-SPI accessible tree omits objects which are not visible 
on the screen.
35654     A writer document doesn't implement the Collection 
interface of AT-SPI.

Can somebody look into these bug reports please?

Regards.

--
Dattatray Bhat

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
accessibility+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: 
http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot 
be deleted



--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
accessibility+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? 
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted




--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
accessibility+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted



-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to accessibility+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted




-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to accessibility+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Context


Privacy Policy | Impressum (Legal Info) | Copyright information: Unless otherwise specified, all text and images on this website are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License. This does not include the source code of LibreOffice, which is licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPLv2). "LibreOffice" and "The Document Foundation" are registered trademarks of their corresponding registered owners or are in actual use as trademarks in one or more countries. Their respective logos and icons are also subject to international copyright laws. Use thereof is explained in our trademark policy.