Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice "Fresh" not explained and inconsistent

On 03/11/2014 11:47 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hello Tim, all,
>
>
> Le 2014-03-11 15:25, Kracked_P_P---webmaster a écrit :
> > The new website design decided to change the things.  Wording included.
> >
> > "Fresh" now refers to the version that is not as "stable" as the
> > current line you are using and is currently for the more "adventurous"
> > users.  Right now your Mom is using the "current" 4.1.x line that is
> > at 4.1.5.  The "Fresh" version/line is at 4.2.1 and is meant for those
> > more adventurous early adopters, and not people like your Mom [most
> > likely].
>
> Well, that is your own judgement and perception. That is also the 
> judgement of the person who started the thread -I'm fine with that- 
> however:  Fresh is supposed to convey the meaning of new. Stable 
> means... stable, but really stable.
SO
when 4.1.6 comes out - that will be listed as "Fresh"?



> But remember: both are stable anyway, otherwise they would not be 
> released, and they would be called betas, or release candidates, etc.
>
>
> > Yes, you know this, but I think we really need to find a better words
> > to replace "Fresh" and "Stable".
>
> There was a discussion on this on the marketing list. I really did not 
> pull it out of my head....
>
> >  Others may not and need to be given
> > a "warning" that the newest version of the 4.2.x line is not for those
> > users that do not like to be an "early adopter" or something like
> > that.  Most "moms and dads" would not.
>
> Again, that is your own perception. You define a type of user that may 
> exist, but plenty of other people can enjoy the fresh version with no 
> worries at all. Again, the fresh version is a stable but more recent 
> version of the new branch. Or are you suggesting that Most "moms and 
> dads" are using the Firefox ESR and not the most recent and stable 
> version (the 27)?

Most Moms and Dads I deal with, including mine, can barely deal with a 
browser or email client.  Of course, most of them I deal with are over 
65 and some [like my parents] are over 80.

Now the parents that grew up with computers may be very good at using 
the computer, but I have dealt with some under 30 people that have to 
have their system installed since they think it is OK to remove the 
anti-virus and firewall software while using "always on" broadband 
Internet connections.  I make a lot of money every year rebuilding those 
systems and hearing about the lost photos and such.


> >  I know mine would not.
>
> Mine happily use the fresh one...
>
> >  Most
> > of the people who live in my apartment building would not either.
> >
> > In April 4.1.6 will be out and that will be the end of the 4.1.x line.
> >  Then, when 4.2.x gets to 4.2.4, a lot of users switch over that that
> > line.
> >
> > Personally, I would let you Mom know that she should update to 4.1.5.
> > That is what I am currently using, both on Windows and Linux.
> >
> > As for the automatically forwarding to the "Fresh" page, other will
> > need to look at that.
>
> That was in the specs. And others will need to look at that : well we 
> have always pushed the new branch first. Ever since the beginning of 
> the project. And this is only following the line, so to speak. The 
> moment I'll be told by the board to switch to the old branch as the 
> default I'll do it, but that will be some major piece of news to me 
> and many others.
>
>   I am one of those people who think the download
> > page system should not go to the "early adopter"
>
> Tim: you call it the early adopter version. We don't. It is NOT an 
> early adopter version. An early adopter version is the beta we are 
> releasing, and the daily builds you can also download in the download 
> section. On top of this, Libreoffice is an office suite. Not a brand 
> new type of web service or a space shuttle. An early adopter of an 
> office suite is someone living in the eighties or perhaps the 
> nineties. Now we have users who have the need for ultra stable 
> versions (like professionals) and people who can use the most recent, 
> yet stable version. Early adopters is something we are constantly 
> looking for as they help us test the suite before it becomes.... fresh.

Well how many people would call 4.3.0 an early adopter version?  It 
seems that every .0 version has been "pushed" over the current release 
of the previous line.  As long as there is some text stating that these 
.0 versions are not for the business users, or the 99% up-time users, 
then I will be happy.

[----
Of course, for me, as a Linux user, I tend to deal with things in a 
little different light than the typical Windows users.  I like my OS to 
be more stable and less likely to have a virus or malware that I can get 
with Windows.  So I run Linux. The only "beta" software I run is one 
that I cannot get the previous version to install on Ubuntu 13.xx or 
Mint 16 - Kompozer.  It would be nice to find a WYSIWYG dedicated web 
page editor for the newer versions of Ubuntu-based OS.  Yes, Writer can 
do it, but I prefer to use a dedicated software.  If I could not find a 
non-repository install for Kompozer, then I would use Writer.  I 
sometimes use it anyways, just to see how easy it is to do that work.
---]

Well, I do have 4.2.1 on one of my dual booting laptops running both 
Windows 7 and Ubuntu 13.10.  I like the larger color boxes that it has.

> > version of
> > LibreOffice.  It currently should go to 4.1.5 and inform you that
> > 4.2.1 exists and that is it for those who are more adventurous users
> > who would like to be an "early adopter" of the new line.
>
> Again, see my point above. That's your own perception and it goes 
> against everything we do. Our most recent branch is not the unstable 
> branch. It's not a beta version. It's a stable version that's stable 
> enough to be released as such.

Yes, it is all personal perception on what is good and not as good. Most 
of us here thing LO is better than MSO.  No matter how much we can prove 
our point[s] to a MSO user, they will still think we are wrong.

There are those who use PPA version of LO and others who will not. I am 
running Mint 16 and I got rid of the default 4.1.3 install and installed 
4.1.5.  Then Mint updated itself and gave me 4.1.3 back running along 
side of .5.  Then I placed the PPA in the update cycle and I now have 
two different versions 4.1.5 installed alongside of each other.  Both 
are listed in the menu system.  I know the difference between them, 
since they each use a different icon set in the top menu bars.

So it is perception that tells people to use PPA vs. the LO web site 
download version.

I will be removing LO from the system and reinstalling LO 4.1.5 from the 
web site.  That way I only have one version installed on my IDE 250GB 
drive that I now use for the OS and /home folders.  I am using the four 
SATA drives for data and optical devices.  Next system will have 6+ SATA 
ports.


> Best,
>
> Charles.
>
>
>  In a few
> > months, the 4.3.x line will be started and then it will be for the
> > early adopters, while the 4.2.x line will be at the "more stable"
> > stage with versions 4.2.4 or 4.2.5 available  for download.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 03/11/2014 07:12 AM, Johannes Dewender wrote:
> > > Hello LibreOffice Website Guys,
> > >
> > >
> > > My mom got a notification in LibreOffice that an LibreOffice 4.1.5 
> > > is available (she had 4.1.3 or similar). The only choice was a 
> > > manual update which opened the browser at
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/download/
> > > which automatically forwarded to
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/
> > > And there was a "LibreOffice Fresh" 4.2.1 available.
> > >
> > > So two confusions arose:
> > > 1. What the Heck is "LibreOffice Fresh"?
> > > 2. Why are (normal) users advised to go for 4.1.5, but the website 
> > > redirects to 4.2.1?
> > >
> > >
> > > To be precise on the Naming/Explaining inconsistency:
> > >
> > > I could not find "LibreOffice Fresh" explained anywhere. The string 
> > > just appears. Not even one sentence what this is about.
> > > https://www.libreoffice.org/download/release-notes/ introduces 4.2.* 
> > > but also no mentioning of "Fresh".
> > >
> > > Additionally the usage of that "string" isn't even at all consistent:
> > >
> > > At
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/
> > > on the bottom I see 4.1.5 *and* 4.2.1 listed as "stable".
> > >
> > > Under
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/?type=rpm-x86_64&version=4.1.5&lang=en-US 
> > > you do get 4.1.5 under the "LibreOffice Fresh" label.
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyways, the idea to have an early adopters version labeled 
> > > "LibreOffice Fresh" is fine, but that needs to be communicated!
> > > Yes, some users wouldn't care if it says "LibreOffice Trojan 
> > > Edition" and install it anyways, but others actually do read what it 
> > > says and get more and more confused the more they try to find out 
> > > what this means.
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > > JonnyJD


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