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Le 2011-01-06 21:05, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :

Hi Bernhard, thanks for your comments and opinions. I also leave my opinions on this matter then, and I would not be surprised if others will also leave their comments as well.

Hi Mike, all,

just a few points I want to mention...
They are my personal opinion, but having been part of the OOo community
for quite a number of years, I'm quite sure that they are shared by
other people too.

Maybe some but not all people. The LibO community has grown with new members, which is what the LibreOffice is also all about. Some of us have no prior knowledge of problems with the OOo. Knowing/informed of prior problems with OOo is great for insight, but new people may have fresh ideas that they bring to the new LibreOffice group. This will add vibrancy to the group and give it more of a "forward looking" view of LibreOffice and its communities.

Michael Wheatland schrieb:
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Charles-H. Schulz
<> wrote:

The admins have run this since the beginning and I don't see why we
host our website elsewhere. Now the website team has some people with
rights and that's how it works. It's actually the usual way to operate
elsewhere. What wouldyou suggest?

I am not suggesting changing anything as long as the website team has
the autonomy and authority to modify and improve our areas of
responsibility ourselves.

The present website team consists of the people working on the website
and improving it.

Your activities have been a different main focus in the past, so it is
great to have you on board again.

When David presented his first iteration of the website, he had to face
some comments on different parts of his work. He tried to reply to quite
a number of postings here on the list, but he couldn't see a common
direction in the comments, so discussions led to nothing than more

As we urgently need the website and most of us think it has to be
improved sooner than later, David started a new iteration of the site.

He asked the SC for their approval to work on the site until the 10th of
January and he wanted to hand it over to the community at this time.

Probably because there have not been an active website team, but only a
few people commenting the now active website in different directions, he
asked the SC to be the responsible group to accept the website.

I beg to differ. There was a group of website members willing to help out and had their names listed on the Silverstripe team wiki page membership roster. Now, I can no longer seem to find the wiki page, you only have to re-read the thread on the website discussion list titled: "[libreoffice-website] [SC] Decision about CMS" to get a feeling of who had volunteered/offered help with the site. Just in case you are too busy to re-reread this voluminous thread, as I was the one who also helped in organising the initial wiki page with the pro/cons of the remaining contending CMS' as well as the section with the website Silverstripe and Drupal teams (Christian had originally started the page), you could either filter the thread on my last name "pare" to see the development of the CMS member volunteer discussions or I have listed the particular posts talking of offers of help here:

As you can see there were some members who had offered their help, some of whom, very experienced in website building. Again, I had personally worked on a section of the site adding content. It was only later that David asked for a larger role in order to complete adding content. It was at this point that we all stood back and agreed to unfettered control to David so that he could complete this task (as agreed by the SC).

I myself was/am a little concerned that these situations should, at best, be avoided in the future as it does not promote to the community aspect to the project. We may risk losing capable members if they see their role in the LibreOffice diminished this way. A community involvement should always be the option for all parts of LibreOffice ... is this not what we signed up for? But OK, the SC decided on this path which will result in the CMS of Jan. 10th.

It was simply the suggestion that the Steering Committee would be kept
in the loop before the website team that seems disrespectful and
somewhat belittles the team.

You might see it different, but there is no active website team at the
moment except the few people working on the site.

The website team didn't manage to create content for the main site for
several weeks, so we have to doubt, if there is a team at all.

I can only speak for myself on this point. We were assured that a working website would be available in short after the SC had decided on a Silverstripe CMS start. I assumed, naively, that there was a content team ready to pour content into the site. I therefore spent time with the Drupal team. It was only later that I realised there was no content team for the international site (English) and that the German and French teams had in fact added sufficiently amount of content themselves to go live! At this point I jumped in and started helping out. Note that there had already been calls for better guidance in the marketing confcall or at least a list of tasks to be taken care of, but none was ever produced.

When there is no organisation, then there is no action and a loss of collective contribution. There has to be better organised methods used if we are to get anywhere. Proof that organising works is the recent movement to organise all teams with a tasks list ( targetted to the release(s) of LibO distro(s). We are all better equipped to work this way. Many thanks to the person who organised this list of tasks.

We will create the team in a few days, as I'm very sure that the SC will
accept the website created by David and Ivan who supports him at the

As this new version will contain address of our concerns for the present
website, the new website team will be able to work on improvements

I don't know if we need a formal "lead" as the LibO community tries to
avoid hierarchical structures. Decisions are based on merit instead:
People who have actively worked on a certain task have the most
important voice in decisions about this topic.

The website needs a group of people taking care of it's quality, because
this is the first and most prominent area where potential users and
contributors contact LibreOffice.

This group has to consist of specialists in webdesign, user experience,
marketing and documentation, and I'm quite sure that you will be a
relevant part of this group once you have shown your active contribution
to *this* area of work.

Perhaps then we should revisit this. There have already been discussions on the documentation team of a documentation lead. Italo is our defacto lead with the marketing team (we have ablsolutely no problem with this). This seems to work quite well with these teams. Why would there not be this kind of leadership role for the website team? As you state, this is the "first and most prominent area" of LibreOffice.

We will have a new active website team - let's start working after the

Hence, the progress that David has made privately should be shared
with the website team as a whole to allow review and future
contributions from the whole team.

It will be shared after the 10th (as I already mentioned above, the SC
will not refuse Davids and Ivan's great work).

Review and future contributions will be done by the new team - following
the recommendations of the experts mentioned above.

There are many people involved in this list who are keen to
contribute. Lets get them involved.

I truly hope so, even if the past did prove the opposite...

To do that, we need to be kept up to date with the Silverstripe site
progress and encourage collaboration, delegation and accountability.

Even if David is working on a sandbox site, his progress can be looked
at, as the link to the site has already been posted here on the list.

He's probably doing more work in the background, so the site is not at
the bleeding edge, but as he asked us to wait with comments three more
days, I don't think that this causes any problems.

(I don't repeat the link here - if you think it is important to have a
look at it *now*, you'll find it in the archives).

Here it is, in case anyone missed it: . This is public knowledge for the website list and was given out by David here:

If we'll have an active team from the 10th on, the future workflow will
not only concentrate on improving the content, but in involving (new)
community contributors too.

Best regards


PS: Please remember: My personal opinion only!

My opinions as well.


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