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If you want to see another take on Drupal.  I'm making a site to do project
management with it.


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All the forms and views of data were generated using the query builder
(views) and the content creator (CCK)

In Drupal you can define field in the database for any type of data and then
have access to them with the query builder.  It works like Microsoft Access
but to build websites that can scale to millions of hits.  In fact, there is
a new module called features that lets you package these functions into a
new module by actually writing the code for that feature based on the design
you make on a development site.  So you can then download that new module
and install it on another site.  Does silverstripe do that?  Not that we
need that feature necessarily, but it really helps for rolling out new
features on a production site, since you can just install a new package like
you would any other program.  After you get to use Drupal for a while, you
come to realize that it is more like an operating system / web productivity
software than a content management system.  Yes, it works perfectly fine as
a CMS but it has infinitely more potential uses.

Drupal can also be set to scale images based on preset templates to ensure
that images fit in the theme correctly.  Drupal has groups, blogs, wiki, and
an ajax based UI designer called panels that lets you drag and drop items
around a page.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Benjamin Horst <> wrote:


On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Benjamin Horst <> wrote:
On Oct 18, 2010, at 5:19 PM, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Benjamin Horst <>

We're working on this, but again, it's not a one-person decision here.

Yes, it's not. But those people who will make the decision should have
something to compare. I fully agree here.
But again: Who else but those who are advocating for a specific
platform, those who tell they have experience with the system are more
suited to setup a demo?
Especially if everybody is telling that you need to put quite some
time into configuring it until it fits all your needs?

Those who have said this were envisioning far more complex sites than I
believe you were imagining. To replicate the current static site will not
require a great deal of configuration whatsoever.

I don't think the onus is on everyone to prove to you personally that
Drupal is best suited

No, not to me personally. Me included, but not exclusively to me. So
far only the ones that maintain a drupal site themselves are in favor
or drupal, the users didn't really had a chance to make up their mind
yet. (And those who were and tried out silverstripe, prefer
silverstripe over the current drupal demo)

I think this is not a valid comparison, unfortunately, until after Keith
shared full admin credentials to his demo late this afternoon (Tuesday). At
that point, several people seemed more supportive of Drupal.

to the task; I think it's the reverse. If you're setting yourself up as
the gatekeeper here,

Kind of, since I won't blindly follow whomever shouts loudest.
I'm active in the OOo community for the last ten years, so I consider
myself as experienced community member, I have been active in the
website project at OOo, am in the admin group taking care of the

This is good, but you're not the only one who has been active this long.
Further, new contributors can also provide fresh new ideas that should be
weighed on their merits, not based on their newness to the project. Finally,
at the moment, you seem to be shouting the loudest while covering your ears
to my suggestions.

But I'm surely not the only one who will make that decision. Again to
stress it: It is the content editors/native-lang people basically
who'll work with it, so it needs to be easy to use for /them/, not
nice for the admin.
If both is combined, the better, but if the UI for the user sucks,
then sorry, you're out of the game.

I agree, but the Drupal UI is strong, so I don't see the problem.

then you need to be impartial and test both suggested platforms

Test: Yes, I fully agree.
Set it up myself and then having to face comments like you don't know
it, you should have done it otherwise, install module xy and
everythign works, etc.: No, thanks.

We're not in contention here. I will be happy to talk you through as much
as I know without blaming you for not knowing what modules need to be
enabled for which functionality. Or, better, we can simply work with Keith's
demo now that he's shared the admin credentials with the list.

If you're setting yourself up as an advocate of one platform, then you
cannot also be the person to make the final decision.

But I can always defend my personal opinion. And honestly: That what I
saw from the drupal demos doesn't kick it for me.

It just doesn't fit the usecase of the website. (And I take the
current OOo website as reference here, since I expect the organization
and use to be very, very similar)

It fits the usecase of the website very well. Please explain what you think
is missing?

On Oct 18, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Benjamin Horst <>

Silverstripe looks like a nice CMS, but not the best match for our

Then please point out what it lacks for our requirements, what
requirement you're talking about here.

See my next line.

For a large site supporting dynamic activities

What do you mean with dynamic activities?

Allowing site members to create content, working groups, discussions and
comments, and similar actions.

[...] since you are already biased toward one particular system and have
not spent your time evenly evaluating the proposed alternative.

Well, I'n not getting tired to write that I'll happily evaluate it,
but that I'm not setting it up myself.
I laid out the reasons for this multiple times.

You seem to have sufficient time to spend on this project. But we can work
from Keith's demo going forward.

Turning your above statement around--just because you built a pretty
demo in Silverstripe,
does not mean that it will scale (in terms of functionality) to address
the full site needs of
LibreOffice. This is my single largest concern--if we start with
Silverstripe, we may grow into
its limitations pretty quickly. Then we have the unpleasant choice of
replacing our CMS or
just living uncomfortably with it. Inertia may well lead us to choose
the second option, which
could cripple our project in many small ways.

Well, I don't see a problem with that. Once because I don't think that
Silverstripe doesn't scale for the intended usage, and secondly: Even
if it does, I see no problem in admitting the failure and to switch to
another CMS.

None of us has seen this firsthand, that's why I am skeptical.

That is exactly my argumentation why I'm not suitable to setup a
drupal demo. No matter how much effort I'll put in, there *will* be
someone who will complain afterwards: You could have done it better
/that/ way. And I don't feel like that.

I don't think this will happen. Or, we'll just work from Keith's demo.

I don't get why you ignore this aspect again and again and always
claim that I'm not willing to evaluate it/not willing to consider it.

As I have said each time--I'm already working day and night and cannot find
the time to do this. You seem to have the time, so I keep asking you to step
in and help out. At the very least, you'll then have the perspective of
working with two CMSs before making your decision. Would you buy the first
car or house that you saw? Why the first CMS?

This conversation has been challenging, but I think it is important to
start the LibreOffice
website on the best possible platform.

As indicated otherwise: It is important to /start/.
Even it it is not the best possible platform on earth. What counts is
that it works.

Now that Keith's demo is available, please take another look using the
admin credentials. It surely works.


Benjamin Horst
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