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Thanks, please see below.

On 2015-10-21 10:45, Regina Henschel wrote:
Hi Steve,

Steve Edmonds schrieb:
I'm about to show my ignorance here, what is Tools > Outline Numbering
for. The help and Writer guide a a bit brief.

For years I have been creating manuals with a layout
       1.1.1 etc. where these items are all in the table of contents.
Last night I change the style of Heading 4 and looked a bit deeper and I
find I am using Heading styles 1-4

That is the easiest way. That are the styles which are used as default in the outline levels.

 with Numbering style 1.

That is a wrong combination.

It is working well, but if that is by mistake or a bug then I should fix it before the bug is fixed.
When I look at Outline Numbering it sets the paragraph style for each
outline level but there are no position and spacing or number and
character style set.

?? Goto Tools > Outline Numbering > Tab Numbering.
In the center of that dialog page I see under Paragraph style the items:

Number, !! *Character style* , Show sublevel, Separator Before and After, Start at

And on the next tab, the tab Position I see the items:
Aligned at, Numbering alignment, Numbering followed by,, ..Indent at

What do you miss?
They are set to Number = none, Character style = none, show sublevel = empty, separators empty, start at 1.
Position is all 0.00

 These are all set in the paragraph and numbering

The numbering styles have similar settings because the appearance is similar. They use the same technical means. But the effect on the paragraph to which they were assigned is different. The outline numbering dialog connects a paragraph style to an outline level. The resulting element is text:h, the numbering style produces a list with an element text:list for the whole list, and text:list-item for each item of the list. You can easily look at this technical part, when you save the document in flat format (.fodt) and look at the end of the document where you find <office:body>.

When you now assign a numbering style to a heading, then you get a nesting. You generate a list, which has a list item, which contains a heading. Because the list-item is the outer one, the list-numbering hides the heading-numbering.
Oh, thanks. I think I see what happens. As my heading is in outline numbering, but numbering is set to none, I don't see the list-numbering hides the heading-numbering.

Most cases, where users see curious behavior in numbering is because of this mixing. Avoid it!

How does Tools > Outline Numbering do more than assign a paragraph style
to an outline level, do the settings in Tools > Outline Numbering over
ride the styles or vis versa.

There is more to know about outline numbering. You can determine an arbitrary paragraph style to be a outline paragraph style without using the Tools > Outline Numbering dialog. It is the setting "Outline" in the tab Outline&Numbering in the paragraph style dialog. This setting is only disabled for those styles, which are assigned via Tools > Outline Numbering. You can use this for example for an appendix, which should be in the normal level hierarchy, but out of the normal numbering sequence.

To get such additional heading numbered you need to connect this heading style with a numbering style, done on the same dialog page. Notice, this connecting is different from assigning a numbering style to a paragraph. It does not produce a list.

In normal cases you should use the Tools > Outline Numbering way. The additional benefit of it is, that when you change the level by promote or demote in the Navigator, then the heading changes automatically its style. That is possible, because Tools > Outline Numbering contains the complete list of which level is assigned to which paragraph style and because there exists exactly one such connection.

If you change the level of a heading, which has a self-made heading style, then the heading gets the new level as hard formatting of the paragraph, but the style remains the same. You would need to manually assign a self-made style for the new level to keep level and style consistent.

In principle, it is quite simple: Use Tools>Outline Numbering for headings and use the list styles like "Numbering 1" for true lists and do not mix them. That avoids a lot of trouble.

Kind regards

Thanks. This has helped clarify things. Possibly this is related to another irregularity that I have noticed but need to investigate further. If I have a heading style in outline numbering (Heading 2) and change to a custom style (HeadingM2) to remove it from outline numbering, it leaves a blank item in outline numbering shown in the navigator and Insert-reference. The paragraph shows correctly as HeadingM2 but if I right click clear direct formatting it removes the blank line. When I double click the blank line in the navigator it takes me to the custom HeadingM2. Could this happen if my custom style inherits from Heading 2, it in fact inherits some outline characteristics although I don't know why clear direct formatting fixes that.

This same problem of having to clear direct formatting to display a style occurs elsewhere. I have a style mytext (with regular font) and a style mytextItalic (with italic font). If I write a paragraph with style mytext and then highlight and change to mytextItalic, the text does not change to italic until I clear direct formatting. When a style inherits from another style but you change say the font (to italic) is that considered direct formatting.


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