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Virgil Arrington wrote:
I'm beginning to think there is a definite bug here.

I just renamed my user profile, and opened a brand new document using
the default template. I then experimented with the following steps.

Step 1: I setup three outline styles. I then typed the name of the
styles and applied the appropriate outline level to each line:

1 Heading 1
1.1 Heading 2
1.1.1 Heading 3

So far so good.

Step 2: I then demoted the second line to outline level three and
promoted the third line to outline level two (without changing text on
each line) and got the following:

1 Heading 1
1.1.1 Heading 2  [actually Heading 3 paragraph style]
1.2 Heading 3     [actually Heading 2 paragraph style]

Step 3: Then, out of curiosity, I applied the "Default Style" to the
second line and got the following:

1 Heading 1
Heading 2        [actually "Default Style"]
1.1 Heading 3

Step 4: I then reapplied Heading 3 to the second line and got the

1 Heading 1
1.1.1 Heading 2  [actually Heading 3 paragraph style]
1.1 Heading 3     [actually Heading 2 paragraph style]

Notice that the third line did *not* change to 1.2 as it did in the
second step. It remained 1.1

That does seem inconsistent with Step 2. Worth checking if it happens with the latest version and then filing a bug report I think, if it's not already reported.

Step 5: I then hit Ctrl-z (undo) several times to get back to Step 3,
and when I got there, I got the following:

1 Heading 1
Heading 2        [actually "Default Style"]
1.2 Heading 3

Notice that the third line is now 1.2 instead of 1.1 as it was in Step
3. (I noticed I could get the same result if, after Step 4, I promoted
the second line to outline level 2 and then immediately demoted it again
to outline level 3.

I've noticed undo seems to be a bit flaky lately, in that it doesn't always return everything to how it was. It's as if performing some action triggers other things to happen, and undo reverses the action but not the side-effects. Things like that should probably be reported as bugs.

LO definitely doesn't like it when one applies outline levels out of
order, but that is not uncommon in writing. I often use outlines like
the following:

1. Heading 1

     A. Normal text (outline level 6)

         i. Normal text (outline level 7)

1.x Heading 2

     A. Normal text (outline level 6)

         i. Normal text (outline level 7)

In short, I think LO is confused on outline numbering. Or else, I'm
confused in how to set them up and use them.

I'm not much of an expert, but I suspect that's not how outline numbering is intended to be used. I think it's more like for chapters in a text book, where you wouldn't have a Chapter 3 followed by Chapter 3.x.1 without having a Chapter 3.1 in between. The outline numbering can then be used to create the table of contents (which wouldn't usually include your "Normal text" paragraphs).

The only way I know to setup an outline hierarchy is through "Tools"
"Outline Numbering" which only allows one outline hierarchy at a time.
So I have to set up both my Headings and Normal text outline levels in
one place. But, this requires that I use them out of order as I mix
headings and normal text together.

I think list styles should do what you want for the "normal text" sections. Use the Heading X styles and outline numbering for your headings, and create a list style for applying the A, i numbering to your normal text. On the list style settings, look into the Outline tab, which has preset styles for multi-level lists, pick one which is close to what you want and then tweak it on the Options tab.


On 10/05/2015 08:59 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
I think I was too easily persuaded on this matter. As I think about it
further, I think LO is treating the outline numbering wrongly. I've
compared LO with LaTeX and LaTeX treats the heading numbering

Let's keep it simple for my illustration. In LO, let's say I have
three heading styles (Heading 1, Heading 2, and Heading 3). If I put
them in order, I get (properly):

1. Heading 1
1.1 Heading 2
1.1.1 Heading 3

This corresponds to LaTeX's Section, Subsection, and Subsubsection
environments, which appear as follows (again properly):

1. Section
1.1 Subsection
1.1.1 Subsubsection

But, if I switch the second and third headings, LO and LaTeX provide
different results. In LO, I get

1. Heading 1
1.1.1 Heading 3
1.2 Heading 2

but, with LaTeX, I get,

1. Section
1.0.1 Subsubsection
1.1 Subsection

I think LaTeX's treatment is mathematically more correct. Until I
actual use the second heading, it's value should remain "0", which is
reflected in LaTeX's second example. But, LO gives it a value of "1"
even though I've not yet used it. Thus, in LO, my first use of the
second Heading is given a value of "2" as in 1.2, whereas in LaTeX, my
first use of the second heading is given a value of 1 as in 1.1.

I think LaTeX has it right.

I tried changing the starting value of Heading 2 to "0", but that
messes things up when I use the levels in order, so that's not the

Funny thing is that I've just noticed this behavior. I don't recall
seeing this happen in earlier versions of LO. I'm currently using

In fact, I just loaded two LO documents, one an old one where the
numbering acts like LaTeX, and a newer one, where the numbering acts
like the current LO. My outline numbering settings are the same and my
styles are similar (with different names). For the life of me I can
find no setting between the two documents that is different that could
explain the different style of outline numbering. I'll keep looking,
but for now, it's just weird.

I've noticed other strange behavior with LO's outline numbering.
Sometimes, the "Position" settings are in terms of the "width of the
numbering." At other times, it is in terms of what is placed after the
number, a space, tab, or nothing.

curiouser and curiouser.


On 09/27/2015 03:55 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

On 09/27/2015 06:42 AM, wrote:
I think skipping outline numbering levels, in this case from level 1
(Heading 1) to level 6 (Outline 1) implicitly inserts the
intermediate levels for numbering purposes. It's more obvious with
styles which show all the numbering levels. e.g. if you were to
insert a Heading 5 after the Heading 1, it is numbered, as
if there were a 2.1, 2.1.1 and in between. Thus the next
Heading 2 inserted is 2.2:
  1. Heading 1 Heading 5 Heading 5
  2. Heading 1 Heading 5
  2.2 Heading 2


Thanks. That makes sense. So my problem was trying to combine heading
and outline styles in a single series of 10 outline levels. My
outline styles essentially became subordinate heading styles.


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