Gnu&Linux help-systems and a couple direct answers, was: Fw: [libreoffice-users] Re: Linux hyphenation

Hi :)
Jump-drive or usb-stick or whatever is a great way of doing it.  It is slower than an install on an 
internal hard-drive but it's not hugely noticeable 
unless you use it as your main system.  It's just a really neat way of 
experimenting and playing around with it.  


Sometimes uninstalling the Wubi meant you had to 'fix' the Windows boot-loader 
again to remove the *buntu option from the boot-menu.  


With the Wubi i think the initial default for the boot-loader is to boot 
into Windows.  With the proper dual-boot menu the initial default is 
usually to boot into *buntu/Mint/whichever.  It's not difficult to 
change but only if you have a cheat-sheet to copy&paste from.  I 
tend to move Windows to the top of the menu and then set the default to 
whichever one i need most often.  Anyone that wants a quick post on how to do that just start a new 
thread here or email me off-list.  I imagine most people here have their own how-to or 
cheat-sheet/quick-reference.  


"Mounting" the Windows 
side is now a lot easier in most Gnu&Linux systems but wasn't 
obvious until fairly recently (a year or 2 ago).  Again if you can find 
the right how-to then it is easy and you can even do a quick edit to 
make that happen automatically (although it's not recommended because, 
again, it creates problems if there was a problem on the Windows system 
so it's better to try to mount the Windows side AFTER booting up your 
system and it only takes 2 clicks).  Again if people want a quick guide 
then you could probably get a few different answers on this list, any 
one of which would probably be fine or email me off-list if you are shy 
about going off-topic on this mailing list.   


If you uninstall a proper dual-boot system then the 
general advice is to 'fix' your Windows boot-loader first and then 
consider removing the Gnu&Linux partitions.  'Obviously ' if you 
delete the "drive" a program is installed on then it's going to be tough to try to run that 
program.  So, it's better to use the boot-menu to 
boot into Windows 1st and then fix the Windows boot-menu from there 
BEFORE wiping the partitions that your boot-loader is on.  It is kinda 
contra-intuitive and people that only know Windows systems generally 
give bad advice about this sort of thing.  


If anyone else is trying out Gnu&Linux then please do ask us questions if you run into problems, 
however small they might seem or however 
complicated.  Most people on this list can probably point you to half a 
dozen "how to" or documentation pages or simply tell you how to fix it 
or point you to the proper forums for whichever distro.  Trying to find 
answers yourself runs the risk of finding ridiculous Windows-based 
forums that are clueless.  



It is tough to ask for help with something and then have enough patience 
to wait for replies.  Telephone support is sometimes better because at least you know when you have 
reached a live human being even if they do generally turn out to be a moron or working in a moronic 
system that favours closing tickets fast rather than really solving cases.  On this list i have 
usually tried to make sure 
people get some sort of response within a couple of hours even if i 
haven't been able to help.  I know what it's like to be a noob and ask a question and then sit 
there staring at the screen, hitting refresh and 
not even really knowing if my question arrived anywhere at all while my boss 
goes berserk behind me demanding an instant fix.  


So i try to get a response out there as quickly as possible just to let 
people know their message has arrived.  However, that has got me into a 
lot of trouble with the BoD and various individuals here who would 
rather see people left hanging rather than give them any kind of moral 
support.  


A lot of other support forums and mailing list are worryingly silent in 
comparison to this one because they are waiting for someone to come up 
with the exact right answer.  They don't see any value in making a guess and sometimes fear doing 
so in case they appear to be an idiot in front of their colleagues.  On this list we fearlessly 
make guesses about what we think the person was really asking and build on each others answers 
until it becomes clearer what the person really needs to solve.  So the person sees activity and 
then has to work out how to steer us rather than just getting a blank screen.  

Sorry this is rambling without really going anywhere.  Also i'm even more sorry to hear someone had 
such problems and didn't feel comfortable enough to ask off-topic questions here.  Now that i know 
it was a Wubi install and that they kinda liked Mint we could easily solve most of Virgil's 
problems by just saying to install Mint properly.  It's a bit like renaming the user-profile in 
that 
1.  all sorts of weird little odd behaviours suddenly vanish but 
2.  it's fairly rare to  encounter those weirdnesses in the first place.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  




----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com>
To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>; users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2013, 4:09
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Linux hyphenation
 

I've tried both the Wubi install and a "proper dual boot system" of Windows 
and Ubuntu. It's been a long time, so I can't recall exactly why, but it 
seems that the Wubi installation gave me something that the true dual-boot 
system didn't. I seem to remember that, in the true dual boot system, I 
couldn't use LO in Ubuntu to access the documents in my Windows partition. 
There seemed to be greater separation between the Windows and Ubuntu sides 
of things. But, in the Wubi installation, I could easily access my Windows 
system by going through "File System/Host".

And, when I went to delete the "proper" Ubuntu partition, I was met with the 
horrible grub loader that I had to undo and fix before I could even boot 
from Windows again. So, I preferred Wubi, even though I knew that it wasn't 
a "real" Linux system.

My problem now is that I really want to like Linux. I don't want to keep 
relying on MS and Windows, etc., but every time I try Linux in any form, I 
come across some roadblock that prevents me from committing. I've tried 
several versions of Ubuntu, both Wubi and "proper" as Tom puts it, and I've 
tried the Windows installation of Mint 15 (both 32 and 62 bit). After a 
while, I realize I'm spending a ton of time just trying to make my Linux 
system catch up to what I can already accomplish in Windows. Even LO works 
better for me in Windows than in Linux. Simple things like getting my style 
list box to properly dock to one side of the screen works easily in Windows, 
but I could never get it to work properly in Ubuntu (but I could in Mint... 
go figure). And, I had some keyboard issues with my numeric keypad in both 
Mint and Ubuntu -- nothing major, but an irritation nonetheless.

I still have a Mint installation on a jump drive. For now, when I want to 
play, I'll just boot from that and gain more experience. Once I learn more 
then I may invest the time and effort into a "proper" Linux system.

Virgil



-----Original Message----- 
From: Tom Davies
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:45 AM
To: Virgil Arrington ; users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Linux hyphenation

Hi :)
Ahhh, the Wubi.  For most people it does work really well and for many years 
but just occasionally it runs into weird problems that just don't happen on 
a proper dual-boot system.

The Wubi is installed inside Windows and depends on MS Windows co-operating 
with the Ubuntu.  Various crucial systems such as the boot-loader and the 
file-system are basically MS systems instead of the proper Gnu&Linux ones. 
The Gnu&Linux ones are built to be stable.  Years ago several antivirus 
programs would inaccurately report various false-positives.  There are other 
distros which also have clever ways of installing inside Windows without 
having to resort to too many layers or emulators or virtual machines but the 
whole idea seems flawed to me.  MS are not renowned for co-operating with 
other systems.  Still, a lot of good work goes in and the systems are 
usually stable for most people but a few are unlucky without any obvious 
reason.

Sorry Virgil!
Apols and regards from
Tom :)





________________________________
From: Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com>
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013, 20:22
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Linux hyphenation


Unless anyone else is bothered by this behavior in the Linux LO, I'm letting
it go.

I just uninstalled my Ubuntu wubi install. I'm going to leave it for a while
before trying again. My Windows LO works fine, and so for now, I'll stay
here. I have another life I have to live.

Thanks to all who were interested in this issue.

Virgil

-----Original Message----- 
From: Virgil Arrington
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:28 PM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Linux hyphenation

On 09/15/2013 11:24 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> OK, I went to Synaptic Package Manager and looked up "libhyphen".
>
> It was there as part of the Ubuntu packages.
> Maybe Mint did not install that package.
>
> So go to your package manager and look up and install that "Debian"
> package and see if that helps.
> My package was labeled "libhyphen0".
>
> Looking up "hyphen", I have the following [but not the entire list]
> installed:
> hyphen-en-us
> libhyphen0
> openoffice.org-hyphenation
>
> So go that route.
> Look up the packages in you package manager - I prefer to use Synaptic
> which Ubuntu no longer installs by default.  Then install them there.
>
> You might fix some of your issues.
>
> As I stated, Mint and I had problems with one if my network printers -
> it did not exist on the network - but would use it as a USB printer.
> Had no issues with Ubuntu 10.04 or 12.04.

Okay, here's what I've done.

1. I searched Synaptic for "libhyphen" and found the same files you
mentioned. Yet, LO doesn't recognize it.

2. I then uninstalled my Linux Mint. It was no big deal as I had a Bible
research program that wouldn't work with it anyway. (I won't necessarily
blame Mint, but I didn't want to have to chase down two Mint problems)

3. I installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS using the Wubi installer. That installed
LO 3.5.x by default. (The Bible research program also worked.)

4. I checked LO 3.5.x, under Options/Language Settings/Writing Aids/ and
it had the Hunspell spellcheck module, but it did not have any modules
for Hyphenation, Grammar, or Thesaurus.

5. I then upgraded LO to 4.0.4.2 using the
"ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-4-0" repository. That was a little weird as
I followed online instructions for upgrading to 4.0.5, but the closest I
got was 4.0.4.2. Oh, well.

6. I then installed the American English dictionary from the dictionary
extensions.

7. Once that was installed, I gained the OpenOffice Thesaurus module,
but still no Hyphenation or Grammar Checker modules.

8. Using Synaptic, I found all the same files you listed on your system.

9. Out of curiosity, I then noticed the packages listed at
<https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-4-0>. It
mentions the "hunspell" package and, immediately after, a "hyphen"
package (version 2.8.3-1~lucid1), but no "libhyphen" package. At this
point, I'm waaayyyy out of my techno comfort zone.

This has become a real head scratcher for me. For my actual work, I'm
still booting into Windows, but the OCD side of me wants to figure this out.

Virgil

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