Re: [libreoffice-users] <OT>Re: Sun Weblog Publisher broken

Lol

I guess you don't work in an office nor work with other office workers much!!  
Regards from
Tom :)



________________________________
From: Simos Xenitellis <simos.lists@googlemail.com>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Mon, 30 May, 2011 17:57:02
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] <OT>Re: Sun Weblog Publisher broken

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi :)
> A LOT of people top-post.  Particularly normal office workers.
>
> Most email clients seem to default to open emails at the top of the email.
> Between normal office workers this is normally the latest thing in an ongoing
> thread.  If the poor worker can't remember earlier posts then they just scroll
> down for a quick refresher.
>
> Most normal office workers open the email, see the latest thing that might 
need
> a response and then just click on the reply button and start typing.  Done.
> Next email.
>
> With bottom posting the email gets opened at some ancient history that is far
> too familiar now and might even be something completely unrelated.  Then the
> person scrolls to the bottom of the thread where all the signatures and notes
> about antivirus scans and stuff so the person has to scroll up a bit before
> reaching the relevant part.  Then click on the reply button (perhaps delete 
out
> old parts as reading through) and again scroll to the bottom, delete off all 
> the
> signatures and stuff about antivirus and disclaimers.  Then start typing.
> Done.  Next email.
>
>
> So, it's more  hassle and takes longer for most office workers to do
> bottom-posting and so they (oddly enough) opt for the much easier method of
> top-posting.
>
>
> Regardless of why they do it or how stupid they are for doing something other
> than the way YOU like to do things that is the way most office workers work. 
> Is
> the job of the users list to criticise and alienate new users?  or should we 
be
> welcoming them in and encouraging them?
>
> IF we want to alienate new users and start off by criticising them and being
> judgemental (instead of answering their questions) then bottom-posting is
> great.  Do we want to stop new people from using LO, is the aim to stop people
> from wanting to use LO?  or do 'we' want people to use it?
>
>
> Some people in here criticise me for not doing things the way they normally
> work.  I say that those that criticise me are an almost infinitesimally small
> number of people compared against the total numbers of people that use an 
> office
> suite everyday.  People that stand against top-posting in the users list 
remind
> me of  King Canute trying to stop the incoming tide.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13524677
> It seems that at least he was wise enough to realise that the tide was
> overwhelmingly more powerful than he was.  IF we are to deal with new users 
> then
> we need to be able to cope easily with top-posters on THEIR terms, not ours.
>
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl>
> To: users@libreoffice.org
> Cc: Roland Hughes <roland@logikalsolutions.com>
> Sent: Mon, 30 May, 2011 16:19:09
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] <OT>Re: Sun Weblog Publisher broken
>
> On 30/05/11 15:58, Roland Hughes wrote:
> > Joep,
> >
> > Professional IT workers never remove any portion of the post because
> > when you go through a SOX audit, and then through court, you get in a
> > whole lot of trouble for doing it.
> >
> > Now, people who once got paid for writing a program or use Microsoft
> > products may well have different opinions  since their not the ones
> > working on multi-million dollar projects for Fortunate 500 companies.
> >
> > There is a long drawn out history of people deleting what they didn't
> > read then denying things were said.
> >
> > Bottom posting wastes vast quantities of developers time scrolling to
> > the end.  Full quoting is a policy mandated by most major corporations
> > and IT organizations because it allows management (and the legal team)
> > to jump into the conversation at any point.
> >
> > I wouldn't even be on this list had the Web site been designed by
> > software professionals instead of whoever was used.
> >
> > On Mon, 2011-05-30 at 12:05 +0200, Joep L. Blom wrote:
> >
> > > On 30/05/11 08:45, Roland Hughes wrote:
> > > > Neither bottom nor interleaved posting methods are used by professional
> > > > IT workers.  Microsoft developers yes, but not professionals.
> > >
> > > Sigh! Roland your remark is utter nonsens. Many lists courteously
> > > request to bottom post but also request clipping. Professional IT
> > > workers remove unnecessary wording from replies and adhere to
> > > courteously requested rules.
> > > Joep
> Roland,
> Permit me to disagree. If you need E-mails for court representation it
> is best to furnish the original E-mails not the parts of text in answers
> to E-mails. You answer the relevant portions of an E-mail as the
> originator has the original text. I don't think a court will accept the
> umptieth repeat of an original E-mail. But I live in the Netherlands and
> I have no idea how convoluted American lawyers and justices actually
> reason. Well, that goes for Dutch members of that kind also. It is a
> breed that I, as a simple scientist, not understand so therefore your
> reasoning might be right.
> Joep

Posting styles and etiquette is described in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

When you are dealing with several complex threads of discussion it
helps if you do *properly*
either top or bottom posting.

For top posting, you need to summarize what has been said earlier. A
simple 'No' is bad manners because the recipient needs to scroll down
and figure out what is being referred to.
You would need to write «No, F11 is the key to bring up the styles
window in Writer».

In bottom posting, you can write less, having more context. For example,

------------------------
> I think you need to press F12 in order to get that window for the styles.
> You just press the F12 key and you toggle whether the window appears or 
> disappears.

It's actually F11.
------------------------

See also my signature below.

Simos

-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

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