Re: [libreoffice-users] <OT>Re: Sun Weblog Publisher broken

Hi :)
A LOT of people top-post.  Particularly normal office workers.  

Most email clients seem to default to open emails at the top of the email.  
Between normal office workers this is normally the latest thing in an ongoing 
thread.  If the poor worker can't remember earlier posts then they just scroll 
down for a quick refresher.

Most normal office workers open the email, see the latest thing that might need 
a response and then just click on the reply button and start typing.  Done.  
Next email.

With bottom posting the email gets opened at some ancient history that is far 
too familiar now and might even be something completely unrelated.  Then the 
person scrolls to the bottom of the thread where all the signatures and notes 
about antivirus scans and stuff so the person has to scroll up a bit before 
reaching the relevant part.  Then click on the reply button (perhaps delete out 
old parts as reading through) and again scroll to the bottom, delete off all the 
signatures and stuff about antivirus and disclaimers.  Then start typing.  
Done.  Next email.  


So, it's more  hassle and takes longer for most office workers to do 
bottom-posting and so they (oddly enough) opt for the much easier method of 
top-posting.  


Regardless of why they do it or how stupid they are for doing something other 
than the way YOU like to do things that is the way most office workers work.  Is 
the job of the users list to criticise and alienate new users?  or should we be 
welcoming them in and encouraging them?

IF we want to alienate new users and start off by criticising them and being 
judgemental (instead of answering their questions) then bottom-posting is 
great.  Do we want to stop new people from using LO, is the aim to stop people 
from wanting to use LO?  or do 'we' want people to use it?  


Some people in here criticise me for not doing things the way they normally 
work.  I say that those that criticise me are an almost infinitesimally small 
number of people compared against the total numbers of people that use an office 
suite everyday.  People that stand against top-posting in the users list remind 
me of  King Canute trying to stop the incoming tide.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13524677
It seems that at least he was wise enough to realise that the tide was 
overwhelmingly more powerful than he was.  IF we are to deal with new users then 
we need to be able to cope easily with top-posters on THEIR terms, not ours.  


Regards from
Tom :)




________________________________
From: Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Cc: Roland Hughes <roland@logikalsolutions.com>
Sent: Mon, 30 May, 2011 16:19:09
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] <OT>Re: Sun Weblog Publisher broken

On 30/05/11 15:58, Roland Hughes wrote:
> Joep,
>
> Professional IT workers never remove any portion of the post because
> when you go through a SOX audit, and then through court, you get in a
> whole lot of trouble for doing it.
>
> Now, people who once got paid for writing a program or use Microsoft
> products may well have different opinions  since their not the ones
> working on multi-million dollar projects for Fortunate 500 companies.
>
> There is a long drawn out history of people deleting what they didn't
> read then denying things were said.
>
> Bottom posting wastes vast quantities of developers time scrolling to
> the end.  Full quoting is a policy mandated by most major corporations
> and IT organizations because it allows management (and the legal team)
> to jump into the conversation at any point.
>
> I wouldn't even be on this list had the Web site been designed by
> software professionals instead of whoever was used.
>
> On Mon, 2011-05-30 at 12:05 +0200, Joep L. Blom wrote:
>
> > On 30/05/11 08:45, Roland Hughes wrote:
> > > Neither bottom nor interleaved posting methods are used by professional
> > > IT workers.  Microsoft developers yes, but not professionals.
> >
> > Sigh! Roland your remark is utter nonsens. Many lists courteously
> > request to bottom post but also request clipping. Professional IT
> > workers remove unnecessary wording from replies and adhere to
> > courteously requested rules.
> > Joep
Roland,
Permit me to disagree. If you need E-mails for court representation it 
is best to furnish the original E-mails not the parts of text in answers 
to E-mails. You answer the relevant portions of an E-mail as the 
originator has the original text. I don't think a court will accept the 
umptieth repeat of an original E-mail. But I live in the Netherlands and 
I have no idea how convoluted American lawyers and justices actually 
reason. Well, that goes for Dutch members of that kind also. It is a 
breed that I, as a simple scientist, not understand so therefore your 
reasoning might be right.
Joep


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