I am replying to this once only on list. The atmosphere in a mailing
list is set by the people in agreeing to abide by conventions of
courtesy. One disagreeable poster cant taint the atmosphere for everyone
Email lacks all the signals of body language. So it is even more
important to avoid emotion in words.
It is not an excuse to say that English is not the writer's first
language. All languages have common words for 'stupid', 'illiterate',
'dumb', etc. Using these words transfers emotion in all languages.
On 03/04/2011 03:13 AM, MR ZenWiz wrote:
The mere fact that someone else supported what I said should be an
indication to you that what you said was inappropriate. Your email was
not neutral. If you are truly interested in discovering how to
communicate in a less offensive manner, then an off-list question would
have been appropriate. On-list you dig the hole deeper by coming off as
defensive and insensitive.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:41 AM, Tom Davies<firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Really? Which part - where he read sarcasm and insult into a perfectly
neutral email offering assistance, or the part where you jumped in and
did exactly the same thing and bragged about it?
Saying 'shut up' is emotional and impolite; it is an example of a
non-neutral posting. Think! If the poster is saying he is not responding
to the question, then he is clearly conveying the fact that he cares
about the manner in which the posting was made.
Sorry i can't help with the specific problem.
Then kindly shut up and let people who can, do.
It is well documented
and is apparently recommended that people uninstall OpenOffice before installing
LibreOffice so it surprises me that anyone expects different.
In certain circumstances, yes. In others, no.
for my colleagues rudeness but i fear that is the norm for this emailing list.
I don't need an apologist,
You most certainly do.
Actually, the laid back approach worked fine with me, and if you had not
come back with this posting, I would have said nothing more. So as an
apologist he is good. That you didn't appreciate his response is
something to be considered.
but if I did, I'd find one who was actually
good at it.
This is an ad hominem attack on the poster, meaning that since you don't
like the message, you attack the messenger. Ad hominem is a common
method for creating controversy (and in the internet era, flame wars)
because you move away from the initial topic and introduce other things
to get people annoyed about. The biggest problem with ad hominem attacks
is when those reading them do not recognise the technique. Once you can
categorise such attempts to provoke controversy as an oratorical
mechanism used even in ancient Greece, the language looses its sting.
But then you wonder about the motivations of the person who says such
Also, I consider people colleagues if they work with me,
which, so far, I have not seen you do. As for the "norm," coming from
someone who refuses to abide by ANY of the email list conventions and
even pleads how inconvenient it is to provide good, clear instructions
properly quoted so as to be legible to future list/archive readers,
that's quite a statement.
The best way to explain a principle is to demonstrate it. But here
assigning the words 'petty, petulant' to another person is the reverse
of the principle. So, I agree smiles are no substitute for good manners,
but neither are insinuations of pettiness, unreasonableness or petulance.
Smilies do not constitute good manners, nor are they a substitute for
same. That's one reason I don't use them. But, I guess expecting
anyone to be reasonable and not petty or petulant is beyond some
In this we are exactly the same. And that is what I am trying to do now.
But please note, I am also trying to use words as mild as milk and
pointing out general principles.
For the record, if someone needs help and I can help, I say so; if
someone is wrong and I know it, I say so.
I am with you in this too. And, if you think about it, that is exactly
what the previous poster did when he said 'I cant help with the specific
problem', but your reaction to that comment was ... (look and see).
If I don't know how to help
but don't understand the problem because not enough information is
present for me to do anything with it, I say so.
I have not said stated my opinion about anyone. That I said 'sarcasm is
unwarranted' is not an opinion about a person, it is an opinion about a
statement the person has made. There is a difference. People often say
things without understanding the effect of their statements. That is
understandable, children often say things they do not understand. But
then, it is necessary for someone who sees the problem to point it out
in a kind and understanding non-judgemental manner. This is as necessary
in an internet list as it is when bringing up children. It matters
because an internet list is a community, and the atmosphere in the
community is created by the people who participate.
If I otherwise don't
know how to help, I shut up and wait for someone who does to post, and
then I try to learn from it if the subject is interesting to me.
If you don't like it, pretend you can do that last part unless you can
actually help, and do us all a favor and keep your opinions of other
people on this list to yourself
I am trying to do exactly that here. I hope you can see and understand
what it is I am trying to say.
- maybe if you start to set a good
example here I might be able to do the same.
Your technical help is certainly useful. The manner in which you offer
the advice is offensive, and so you debase the value of your help.
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Problem with spellcheck · ruud habets
- Re: [libreoffice-users] Problem with spellcheck (continued)
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