Being polite was Re: [libreoffice-users] Problem with spellcheck

I am replying to this once only on list. The atmosphere in a mailing 
list is set by the people in agreeing to abide by conventions of 
courtesy. One disagreeable poster cant taint the atmosphere for everyone 
else.

Email lacks all the signals of body language. So it is even more 
important to avoid emotion in words.

It is not an excuse to say that English is not the writer's first 
language. All languages have common words for 'stupid', 'illiterate', 
'dumb', etc. Using these words transfers emotion in all languages.

On 03/04/2011 03:13 AM, MR ZenWiz wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:41 AM, Tom Davies<tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>  wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > Well said.
> Really? Which part - where he read sarcasm and insult into a perfectly
> neutral email offering assistance, or the part where you jumped in and
> did exactly the same thing and bragged about it?
The mere fact that someone else supported what I said should be an 
indication to you that what you said was inappropriate. Your email was 
not neutral. If you are truly interested in discovering how to 
communicate in a less offensive manner, then an off-list question would 
have been appropriate. On-list you dig the hole deeper by coming off as 
defensive and insensitive.
> > Sorry i can't help with the specific problem.
> Then kindly shut up and let people who can, do.
Saying 'shut up' is emotional and impolite; it is an example of a 
non-neutral posting. Think! If the poster is saying he is not responding 
to the question, then he is clearly conveying the fact that he cares 
about the manner in which the posting was made.
> >   It is well documented
> > and is apparently recommended that people uninstall OpenOffice before installing
> > LibreOffice so it surprises me that anyone expects different.
> In certain circumstances, yes.  In others, no.
> >   Many apologies
> > for my colleagues rudeness but i fear that is the norm for this emailing list.
> I don't need an apologist,
You most certainly do.
>   but if I did, I'd find one who was actually
> good at it.
Actually, the laid back approach worked fine with me, and if you had not 
come back with this posting, I would have said nothing more. So as an 
apologist he is good. That you didn't appreciate his response is 
something to be considered.
>    Also, I consider people colleagues if they work with me,
> which, so far, I have not seen you do.  As for the "norm," coming from
> someone who refuses to abide by ANY of the email list conventions and
> even pleads how inconvenient it is to provide good, clear instructions
> properly quoted so as to be legible to future list/archive readers,
> that's quite a statement.
This is an ad hominem attack on the poster, meaning that since you don't 
like the message, you attack the messenger. Ad hominem is a common 
method for creating controversy (and in the internet era, flame wars) 
because you move away from the initial topic and introduce other things 
to get people annoyed about. The biggest problem with ad hominem attacks 
is when those reading them do not recognise the technique. Once you can 
categorise such attempts to provoke controversy as an oratorical 
mechanism used even in ancient Greece, the language looses its sting. 
But then you wonder about the motivations of the person who says such 
things.
> Smilies do not constitute good manners, nor are they a substitute for
> same.  That's one reason I don't use them.  But, I guess expecting
> anyone to be reasonable and not petty or petulant is beyond some
> people's grasp.
The best way to explain a principle is to demonstrate it. But here 
assigning the words 'petty, petulant' to another person is the reverse 
of the principle. So, I agree smiles are no substitute for good manners, 
but neither are insinuations of pettiness, unreasonableness or petulance.
> For the record, if someone needs help and I can help, I say so; if
> someone is wrong and I know it, I say so.
In this we are exactly the same. And that is what I am trying to do now. 
But please note, I am also trying to use words as mild as milk and 
pointing out general principles.
>    If I don't know how to help
> but don't understand the problem because not enough information is
> present for me to do anything with it, I say so.
I am with you in this too. And, if you think about it, that is exactly 
what the previous poster did when he said 'I cant help with the specific 
problem', but your reaction to that comment was ... (look and see).
>    If I otherwise don't
> know how to help, I shut up and wait for someone who does to post, and
> then I try to learn from it if the subject is interesting to me.
>
> If you don't like it, pretend you can do that last part unless you can
> actually help, and do us all a favor and keep your opinions of other
> people on this list to yourself
I have not said stated my opinion about anyone. That I said 'sarcasm is 
unwarranted' is not an opinion about a person, it is an opinion about a 
statement the person has made. There is a difference. People often say 
things without understanding the effect of their statements. That is 
understandable, children often say things they do not understand. But 
then, it is necessary for someone who sees the problem to point it out 
in a kind and understanding non-judgemental manner. This is as necessary 
in an internet list as it is when bringing up children. It matters 
because an internet list is a community, and the atmosphere in the 
community is created by the people who participate.
>   - maybe if you start to set a good
> example here I might be able to do the same.
I am trying to do exactly that here. I hope you can see and understand 
what it is I am trying to say.

Your technical help is certainly useful. The manner in which you offer 
the advice is offensive, and so you debase the value of your help.

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