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So, I agree with the proposal. L8 could be seen as a new start and not an
achievement... new developers mean new functionalities, evolving
organization. I think we can build something around that. Marketed as the
mix of different knowledge as distinguishing elements.



Le ven. 7 avr. 2023 à 00:14, Italo Vignoli <> a écrit :

I have written that developers have a different mindset from marketing
people. I have never said that developers are dumb people, and I have
never even thought this.

On 06/04/23 23:45, Regis Perdreau wrote:
Hi all,

So if i understand correctly, developers are dumb people, talking only to
its computer, and marketer have the privilege to speak to real user...
Well, all the day, i speak to real user, and all say that marketers talk
non sense about Microsoft compatibility...
I wonder how to solve daily cognitive dissonnance
Just kidding

Régis Perdreau

Le jeu. 6 avr. 2023 à 23:00, Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <>
a écrit :

Hi, Nigel, Ben, Eyal, all!

  Let me add some comments. :)

  For sure, the current approach is a requirement for our internal
development organization, as Ben noted. Also, it was really important in
the first years of LibreOffice/TDF, when we used it to demonstrate we
ahead of Apache OpenOffice for the users and the strong
we were building.

  On the other hand, for the current moment of LibreOffice as a project
product, I think we can do more or different things. Nigel wrote
exactly what I mean about 'boring' from the user perspective: most of
users don't care about minor changes.

  So, I think, now, we should decide about releases with a Marketing
perspective and the number 8 could be a first step to do it, even
big changes.

  Could it mean we will do a marketing trick?

  I think no, because we will be transparent with our users as we always
have been. If the release won't have big improvements, we won't talk
big improvements.

  Why release a version without big improvements?

  That is the other point: I don't think we should focus only on big
improvements to use major version numbers (or even version names). We
aren't only a product. We are a project and community. Indeed, the
product is our final work but a major version can also be used to spread
(or celebrate) the maturity of the product/project/community. This is a
different approach than paid software/non FLOSS. This is what I mean

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Nigel Verity <>

Hi Gustavo

This is a very good point.

If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6,
say, I wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that
affected me. I'm pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0
more quickly, if for no other reason that the psychological one of
to be using what my head tells me must be an improvement over my

Of course release notes are available to determine what really has
changed but I rather suspect that most users never read them.

The discussion of the different motivators for development and
people is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor
anybody in
my teams was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for
good reasons.



* LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice Website
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* Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data*
*From:* Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <>
*Sent:* 05 April 2023 22:05
*To:* TDF Devs <>; TDF Marketing <>; TDF Design <>
*Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving
to LibreOffice 8?

Hi Eyal, all!

  I also respectfully disagree with you on some points. ;D

  I like the idea to move to 8, even with no big technical innovation
have, for sure it will be better).

  IMHO, long sequences of minor releases (7.6, in the current case) are
getting boring and not important for the users (for both enterprise and
individual profiles).

  I'm not saying that we should embrace the Firefox approach, but
about Italo's idea (8 <-> infinite), I guess the message of this
could be consolidation, not exactly innovation.


On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:23 AM Eyal Rozenberg <>

I respectfully disagree with Italo.

First, about the "frame of reference". In my opinion, decisions such
major version number bumping are not, first and foremost, marketing
decisions. That is a _consideration_, since the version number is
declarative than technical. But - such an action should be "truthful"
before being "marketable".

It is more important, in my opinion, that users and potential users
receive trustworthy signaling from the project - not just w.r.t.
numbers, but generally - than for the media to get a gimmick for

A second point is that bumping a version number without a major
innovation moves you a few more steps into the category of, say,
and such, where versions just increase automatically with no meaning
whatsoever. Italo, you said we are perceived as a "real innovator";
well, when a real innovator starts having hollow version number
that perception fades.

Finally, everyone who likes the marketing potential of version 8 -
great, but - keep that benefit for when we have a significant step
forward to celebrate. Don't squander it.


PS:  availability on a new platform is not a reason to bump a version
number. It's the "same" software, but built for another target, so
version as before. IMHO anyway.

On 27/03/2023 20:11, Italo Vignoli wrote:
Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in
the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists
that we are forever stuck at 7.x.

We all know that the next version will not include any significant
innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the
build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm
processors on Windows (which has not been announced).

Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
"infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for
infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all
operating systems for personal productivity.

This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't
insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for
marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that
am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision
the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have
very short memory).

Looking forward to your thoughts.

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