Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Community building

Hi :)
I agree with most of this except about speaking perfect English.  No-one is perfect.  It might be 
better to encourage people to write in their own language underneath their attempt to write in 
English.  Not all devs are English.  Obviously there has to be some attempt in English because to 
ensure everyone gets some idea of what is going on.  
Regards from
Tom :)  





> ________________________________
> From: leif <leiflodahl@gmail.com>
> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 September 2012, 19:40
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Community building
>
> On 05-09-2012 00:25, Nino Novak wrote:
> > Hi Leif,
> >
> > nice idea ...
> >
> > Am 04.09.2012 19:10 schrieb leif:
> >
> > > ... self motivating:
> > >
> > >    * ... immediately see a result ...
> > >    * ... makes sense in real life ...
> > >    * ... released on the same date ...
> > >    * ... crowd task ...
> > >
> > > Can we somehow transfer these motivating feelings to other projects?
> > Which projects (or areas) do you feel need most motivation/care?
> Awareness: Documentation and marketing in combination. Try to search on youtube for "gimp 
> tutorial" and "LibreOffice tutorial". Compare the number of results. You can even add the 
> "openoffice tutorial".
>
> Just an example ;-)
>
> > And where are the next lowest hanging fruits (apart from localisation)?
> First of all we should all learn to meet newbees with a more friendly approach. I know from myself 
> that questions from newbees can be very annoying. But he or she might not know that there is a 
> manual or how to search the built-in help. This attitude MUST be more emphasized in ALL corners of 
> our project.
>
> It IS getting better though ;-)
>
> > Just to pick one: QA for example seems to need a different approach, as to ...
> Good place to start ;-)
>
> First question will be: Who are we targeting? Do we really want end users to report bugs?
>
> If we look historically - the answer has somewhat been negativeo far s. End user reports has been 
> neglected and very often marked "NEEDINFO" and totally forgotten. Developers and end users don't 
> speak the same language. And end users are not qualified to report bugs.
>
> Speaking of language: many and users from non-English areas has a problem writing perfect English. 
> Its not a problem when thy do. The problem is to make them do it. Writing English is the first 
> obstacle.
>
> I think we need a team of bug qualifiers to
>
> * Test on various platforms
> * Find additional details about when and how the problem occurs
> * (Translate to or describe in English)
>
> I think the bug hunting parties is one step in the right direction.
>
> When the developer gets back with further questions or want the reporter to test/confirm a fix we 
> see the next problem. The original reporter is long gone or has forgotten all about the bug. 
> Perhaps the developer asks details in a language that the reporter doesn't understand (not 
> uncommon). Again we need a kind of proxy to build bridge between Devs and users.
>
> Would a forum platform help?
>
> Perhaps. But we need a group of people to build the bridge. I think it's unrealistic to ask end 
> users to report bugs directly.
>
>
>
> > . install & test early versions (best: master)
> > . find bugs (desirable: follow a test plan)
> > . report bugs (needs bugzilla knowledge)
> > . reproduce them (try to understand the 'non-native English' first ;-) )
> > . triage them (needs a feeling for relevance)
> > . escalate them (needs rhetoric abilities)
> > . hopefully they get fixed one day (needs patience & luck)
> > . retest and verify them (oh dear!)
> >
> > ... it takes all an awful lot of time, nearly-beyond-human patience and knowhow,
> > and cannot (or to a much lesser extent) be crowdsourced. So there should be
> > other motivators (e.g. a "better working software"? positive end user feedback?
> > increasing download numbers? fun working in the QA community? learn using funky
> > tools? others???)
> Motivation:
> When we publish the list of new features and bug fices we always credit the developer. How about 
> also give credit to the original (first) reporter of the bug?
>
> Emphasize when serious bugs has been found and reported. This also goes for good feature 
> suggestions by the way.
>
> About a year ago I was holding a course in spreadsheet and one of the students asked me if its 
> possible to sort directly in the autofilter dialog. Unfortunately not at the time (PS: Excel can 
> do that). I suggested that to developers and fortunately one of the developers picked the idea up.
>
> Just about the time where 3.6 was released i had a meeting with the same customer and the person 
> who asked the question in the first place was attending too. Before the meeting started I showed 
> him that new feature and told him that this was because he asked that question one year ago. And 
> of cause he was very proud.
>
> > (QA IMHO seems to have been a bit abandonned for the last 2 years and is just
> > starting to gather interested people and establish efficient workflows - hopefully)
> >
> > Nino
> Just a few more ideas from me (more might come up later).
>
>
> Cheers,
> Leif
>
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