Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle

2011/3/3 Rimas Kudelis <rq@akl.lt>

> Hi Paulo,
>
> 2011.03.03 15:30, Paulo de Souza Lima rašė:
>
> > 2011/3/3 Rimas Kudelis<rq@akl.lt>
> >
> > > 2011.03.03 14:18, Claudio F Filho rašė:
> > >
> > >
> > >  Olivier, Can you give the access to Rogerio in the pootle for pt-BR?
> > >
> > > > Sophie, we can get a second person with admin privileges in the pt-BR
> > > > pootle? We are trying to ensure free contribution of the Brazilian
> > > > community
> > > > in the project.
> > > I'll answer this one, if you don't mind. The answer is: it's totally up
> > > to
> > > the team lead (Olivier, in this case). Our (well, at least my) policy is
> > > that Pootle administrators grant language admin rights for one person in
> > > a
> > > team, and leave that person responsible for delegating permissions
> > > (including those of a language admin) inside their team. I don't think an
> > > approach without such hierarchy would be good...
> > If you don't mind, I will answer that.
> >
> > 1 - What if that supposed "team lead" become untrusted by the Community?
> > You
> > are telling us that just one person can decide who is in, or out, of the
> > Pootle resources, based only in his own interest, despite the community
> > needs. That doesn't sound good to me...
>
> Yes, that is a possibility. However, you should understand that most of us
> don't speak your language or know your situation. The only case of focibly
> "demoting" a language lead that I can easily imagine is if that lead would
> not only be inactive him/herself, but would also prevent others from
> contributing. While Olivier's actions could perhaps be seen as the latter
> (though AFAIK he does allow translation suggestions, which he then moderates
> himself), the statistics on Pootle prove that former is not the case –
> LibreOffice UI is 99% translated, and help is 100% translated into pt-BR, so
> he is active.


Many of our statements are translated to English at
https://librecommunity.wordpress.com/, our Community's blog. Other way is
using Google Translate to translate them to any language. So, not speaking
my language is not a fair motive, I guess. We are not asking for "demoting"
anybody. We are asking for the same rights that someone we don't trust has.
We are not saying that Pootle is "abandoned". We are saying that we don't
agree to the fact that one person we do not trust, have the only right to
deal with it.

We are a *Community* and we want the right to *contribute* to that just like
any other local community in the world.


>  2 - We, the Brazilian Community, are asking access to the resources for
> > translating LibreOffce to pt-br, and to colaborate with the project. At
> > this
> > moment, just one person has access to that resources, and that person is
> > not
> > answering to the community requests and needs, despite the fact he is a
> > TDF
> > member and should do so. We do not recognize that person as a "team lead"
> > and it is publicly expressed in many places over the web. We have granted
> > access to almost all the other resources, like wiki, PT-BR website,
> > mailing
> > lists, and so on, but not to Pootle, yet. We want Claudio F. Filho, who is
> > trusted by the Brazilian Community, and also a TDF member, to have the
> > same
> > rights to approve new contributors to Pootle.
>
> I think this should be sorted out within your team/community. I don't think
> there is an official process inside TDF to resolve such conflicts. It would
> be nice to have one though, maybe the TDF officials could craft a fair
> policy for such cases?
>
> In any case, I think that outsiders (from your team's PoV) should not
> generally act as judges for the reasons stated above. They may simply not be
> informed well enough.


This issue has been well discussed in our community and we have a document,
with almost 1000 signatures on it, showing, the community's position on this
matter (It's public and can be accessed at
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http://www.peticaopublica.com.br/PeticaoListaSignatarios.aspx%3Fpi%3DBrOffice
already
translated by Google).

Maybe you could tell us who are those TDF officials you told above, once the
only TDF official we trust in Brazil is Claudio F Filho  and he has no
rights to admin access on Pootle as well.


>  We want, at least, two more contributors added to Pootle, in order to work
> > on translations and make things transparent for the Brazilian Community:
> > Rogério and me. Rogério is asking for access for the last two weeks,
> > without
> > an answer. I am requesting mine right now.
> >
> > What should we do in Pootle's case?
>
> Honestly, I don't know... I can see a few options though. The civilzed way
> is to engage into a dialog with Olivier and sort out your conflicts
> internally. The modern way is to post an online petition and get a bunch of
> signatures. Also, you could try to initiate crafting of an official policy
> for such cases in LibO/TDF, because while not too common, cases like yours
> do arise from time to time.
Olivier has already shown no intention to help us, in a reasonable way. So,
the "civilized way" you told is out of questions at this moment, not for our
wishes, but you could see that in the message Claudio received from him and
posted to this list. We are solving our conflicts internally, but some
issues we simply cannot deal internally. One of them is that one we are
asking you. We already have a public online petition with almost 1000
signatures, as I told you above. Again, we are not trying to "demove"
anybody. We are trying to give to someone trustable the same rights Olivier
has.


> By the way, I've recently learned that free software projects are not
> democratic – they are meritocratic. It's quite disappointing at times (e.g.
> when you disagree with a decision that has been made, and you can't reverse
> it – I know that feeling), but once you think more about it, it does make
> some sense. And as far as I know, Olivier's merit score is quite high in
> this community.
All right! We are not questioning the FOSS way. Indeed, we are trying to
make it real, and not simply words. That's why we don't want only one person
acting as a "judge" in Pootle. Meritocratic ways are not disapointing to us,
but that's what we are fighting for. I don't want to involve you or anyone
else in our internal problems, but there are things we need to solve as soon
as possible, in order to do the right thing.
Olivier has his score and we are not questioning that. What we are
questioning is the fact that he has too much power concentrated in his hands
for a person the community don't trust. There are several people as many
reputable as him who could have the same rights, and the community can trust
as well. Claudio F Filho is one of them.

Maybe you could tell us who to explain our case.


> Rimas
Best regards.

-- 
Paulo de Souza Lima
Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador
http://www.pasl.net.br
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+help@libreoffice.org
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***