RE: examples to manage docs using LibreOffice as a major component

You missunderstand the english of a question.
If in english someone says, I am having problems transforming a cppunit test
into a standalone console application.  Has anyone done that? And if they
have, can they send me a sample or instructions.

Some of you are reading this...as oh...someone does not know how to
transform a cppunit test into a standalone console application.  Gosh...do I
have the time to do this work, on their behalf,  and send that person my
results...Let me check my schedule. Gosh, no..I don't have the time...so I
will have to tell that person..that really...you have to do this on your
own...I cannot help you.

But the question is not asking you to do any work.. The question is asking
something like... have you downloaded libreoffice source files..?  Where do
I go to download?  if you have the time and inclination you send a url.
That's it.  That's the result of the question.  You are not being asked to
download the files for me..and then email it to me.  

Then Michael writes...Of course I have some...but I don't send them to you,
because you will then ask me too many questions...

So only a few members of your community have difficulties with english.  



-----Original Message-----
From: LibreOffice [mailto:libreoffice-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org] On
Behalf Of Wols Lists
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:38 PM
To: libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org
Subject: Re: examples to manage docs using LibreOffice as a major component

On 30/09/14 19:57, nicholas ferguson wrote:
> I didn't understand your answer.  I think you said you would not give 
> me the samples of turning a cppunit test into a standalone executable 
> ..because you find me unskilled and I would then ask too many 
> questions....  Is it your english?

No. It's the way we do it in the Open Source world. You are expected to
scratch your own itches, not expect someone else to do it for you.

You haven't made a very good impression here. Okay, so you don't understand
the culture, as you point out there may be some language issues with people
(though not Michael, he speaks English - that is, REAL English :-)
> And that first you want to see some contributions from me, to the 
> LibreOffice code base.... patches...

Which is what is expected of EVERYONE - you're no different. Or some other
contribution. You're coming over as very demanding, wondering why nobody
else has tried to do the same as you, and expecting them to drop what
they're doing and help you.

Except they're not doing it, because they see no value in doing it! And why
should they waste their valuable time helping someone else, unless they get
a kick out of the sheer act of helping? (Most of us, we're NOT paid ...)
> If I missunderstood your things... can you then tar up an example and 
> send it to me.

"git pull" is your friend. :-)

You're coming over as a typical American - barging into someone else's
community, expecting them to change everything (that works fine for
them) just to suit you, and then wondering why nobody likes you. I notice
Michael is pretty much the only person in your email threads now (and I
strongly suspect he is PAID to be nice to everyone).

The problem is, as has been pointed out, you are working on a very thorny
issue - build systems. On a system that very few developers use (Windows).
And one that a lot of developers despise and don't want to touch! A lot of
your emails have been right over my head, for one. If anyone is going to
help you, it will take a lot of effort for them to get up to speed on what
you're trying to do. And those people (like
Michael) who are being paid to work on LibreOffice are few in number, and
have a lot of more serious priorities.

I don't want to say "you're on your own", but the reality is that most
people here don't see what you're doing as either important, or of interest
to them. Which means you aren't going to get much help (not because people
don't want to, but because they don't understand what - or why - you are
trying to achieve).

And by coming over as demanding, you just guarantee that the people who
*could* help, will likely tune you out.

Sorry, it's just the way things work :-(

Cheers,
Wol
> nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LibreOffice [mailto:libreoffice-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org] 
> On Behalf Of Michael Meeks
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:54 PM
> To: nicholas ferguson
> Cc: 'libreoffice-dev'; 'Tor Lillqvist'
> Subject: Re: examples to manage docs using LibreOffice as a major 
> component
>
> Hi Nicholas,
>
> On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 13:43 -0400, nicholas ferguson wrote:
> > > > you will need to solve a truck-load of bootstrapping issues
> >
> > Wow.  So in the past seven years, not a single successful attempt
>
>       There are several successful attempts. It is certainly not
impossible 
> to do this. Those attempts have however been done by people skilled 
> and experienced in the art of wrestling the LibreOffice octopus - I've 
> personally broken the back of a couple of them. My concern here is not 
> feasibility in the abstract, only the danger of yet more noisy and 
> time-consuming remote debugging by mailing-list to no useful purpose - ie.
> ending up with something that is not contributed back.
>
> >  at transforming a unit test.. and spinning it off into a separate 
> > executable...a unit test like filters_test.cxx
>
>       Sure - those unit tests run under cppunittester - a separate 
> executable; as you can see if you read the make output and/or read the 
> Makefiles ;-) Separately, if you use LibreOfficeKit (under Linux) you 
> can write your own separate executable (eg. gtktiledviewer) really 
> extremely easily - though you are limited by the currently exposed API 
> there; failing that you can link the code into an Android or iOS 
> binary for yet another incarnation. All of it is do-able (with some hard
work).
> > Hard to believe....  These unit tests have so much functionality 
> > exposed... some hacker would seem to be naturally attracted to 
> > transform them into an independent executable.
>
>       They are already executed as shared libraries loaded into a separate

> executable post compilation. That however happens inside the warm, 
> nurturing, and rather painfully constructed context of a live 
> LibreOffice build tree.
>
>       But of course - as with -any- community / code problem - you are by 
> far more than welcome to contribute to fixing the situation and 
> meeting your own need. Indeed, I encourage you to get stuck into 
> fixing whatever perceived gaps there are, all of us are responsible 
> for improving things here as their means allow :-) I look forward to your
patches.
>       ATB,
>
>               Michael.
>
> --
>  michael.meeks@collabora.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot
>
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