Re: [Libreoffice] [UX] [PATCH] EasyHacks 3.27 Change Sheet copy process

Hello Christoph!

On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 23:18 +0100, Christoph Noack wrote:
> Hi Kohei, hi Joost, hi dev list members!
>
> It seems that I still miss a good way to sort and highlight IMAP
> messages - I did not pay too much attention to this thread and totally
> missed the CC "Christoph". Grrr & sorry at the same time ...
>
> Thus, I don't know whether this is helpful at the moment (as far as I
> understand, the patch has been already committed), but here are my short
> thoughts ...

Well, usability is always an on-going process.  So this is never too
late. :-)

> Bur first, a basic question: Did the change address a small (but
> important) issue, or is the change part of some broader attempt? I ask,
> because the dialog is rather old and contains some other issues (like
> the old vertical OK/Cancel/Help design).

As Andy already explained, this one is not a part of any broader plan,
but just a one-time improvement.  But I'd love you hear your thoughts on
how it could be improved further.

> Am Freitag, den 10.12.2010, 20:31 -0500 schrieb Kohei Yoshida:
> [...]
> > About UI
>
> I'll refer to your (Kohei's) pictures linked in another mail ...
>
> > And these are the screenshots of the new dialog.
> >
> > Rename unchecked
> > http://people.freedesktop.org/~kohei/sheet-rename-unchecked.png
> >
> > Rename checked
> > http://people.freedesktop.org/~kohei/sheet-rename-checked.png
>
> Two main (and somehow rhetorical) questions / remarks:
>       * If the user copies a sheet (several sheets) within the same
>         file, then the new sheets will be renamed anyway. Right?
>         Although the user did not check the "Rename" checkbox ... --> As
>         far as I understand, we require unique sheet names. The checkbox
>         refers to a user intended name change.
>       * If the user copies a sheet, how will he get aware of the name of
>         the new sheet? --> Currently, people have to finish the
>         operation and then look for the new name.
>
> > * Let's remove the 'New Name' string as I feel this is redundant.  And 
> >   let' place the rename box either to the immediate right of 'Rename' 
> >   check box, or immediately below it.  I prefer it being to the right 
> >   of the check box since we have a plenty of space there.
>
> Does that mean the aligned to the caption "Rename"? Would be great.

Yes it is.  The 'Rename' text and the rename box are on the same row
now.

> > * Instead of hiding the rename box, it's better to disable it when the 
> >   Rename check box is not checked.  We generally don't show or hide 
> >   controls but enable or disable it.
> >
> > * Let's disable the Rename check box as well as the rename input box 
> >   when multiple sheets are selected.  We don't know what we should do 
> >   for multiple sheet copy/move & rename yet, so I would be more 
> >   comfortable disabling it in such cases (at least for now).  
>
> Yep.
>
> > * I think it would be more user-friendly if the Rename input box 
> >   showed the default sheet name.  When moving a sheet, this would be 
> >   the original sheet name, while when copying a sheet it would be the 
> >   original name followed by '_' + <num> (e.g.  Sheet1 -> Sheet1_1).  
>
> Absolutely.
>
> > [...] 
> >
> > All in all, I'm happy with what I see there, so, good work! :-)
>
> A small additional question (I may have missed that): What happens, if
> the user choses a name that is already used in the document? The current
> (less helpful) reaction within the renaming sheet dialog is another
> dialog window "Invalid sheet name." (Ask any user if he knows what this
> might mean ... *g*).

Good question.  I don't think we currently handle this in the UI, but
let it pass to Calc and Calc will spit "Invalid sheet name" dialog for
now.

However, we could check for the validity of the new name as the user
types, and do something when the name already exists in the document.
Disabling the OK button (or whatever the confirmation button will be)
would be my first thought.  The chart dialog does something cute and
turns the background color of the input box to pink when you enter an
invalid cell range address.  I don't know whether it's possible to do
that here (but I can find out).

> > Let me know if you need any help with any of the above items.
> >
> > I'll CC Christoph in case he has some comments on this feature as well
> > as on my comments above.  Christoph, please feel free to add your
> > comments as well if you have any. :-)
>
> Concerning my questions above, I do have a proposal - it is meant to be
> a small iterative step, so please look at it critically ;-)
>
> Some assumptions:
>       * limit the number of changes
>       * keep the idea of a common move / copy dialog (I still don't know
>         why this had been introduced ... but at least, it saves another
>         menu item)
>
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |                  Move / Copy Sheet: $sheetname                      |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |  Action ----------------------------------------------------------  +
> |    (o) Move                                                         |
> |    ( ) Copy                                                         |
> |                                                                     |
> |  Location and Name -----------------------------------------------  |
> |    To Document                                                      |
> |    [ $documentname (Current Document)                         |\/]  |
> |                                                                     |
> |    Insert Before                                                    |
> |    +-------------------------------------------------------------+  |
> |    | Sheet 1                                                     |  |
> |    | Sheet 2                                                     |  |
> |    | Sheet 3                                                     |  |
> |    | (move to end position)                                      |  |
> |    +-------------------------------------------------------------+  |
> |                                                                     |
> |    Name                                                             |
> |    [ $sheetname 2                                                ]  |
> |                                                                     |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | [ Help ]                                       [  OK  ]  [ Cancel ] |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> More or less major changes:
>       * Although a bit "visually noisy", I've did the design on the
>         basis of the current (draft) dialog guidelines [1] (better than
>         nothing)
>       * Added "old" sheet name to the window title (similar to the style
>         handling) --> helps the user to double-check the sheet (s)he is
>         going to copy/move (good if he e.g. got interrupted)

Good idea.

>       * Added the "(Current Document)" to the document name --> helps
>         some people to identify that everything is okay

Yup.

>       * Removed the "rename" checkbox and keep the text field -->
>         Provides direct access for the user to adapt the name (and if
>         not, it lets the user check the name in advance if only one
>         sheet is moved/copied).

Yup, I like this.

> Concerning the latter, the main issue is how to handle the automatic
> proposals versus any user desired name change. Proposal:
>       * If the user did not change the name manually, then automatically
>         propose new names.
>       * If the user once changed the name in the dialog (touched the
>         text field), then keep the name (even if it conflicts with the
>         sheet names within the target file)
>       * More info on demand ;-)
>
> Another thing would be helpful ... a more instant feedback on name
> conflicts: showing a comment below the name text field, deactivating the
> "OK" button. The "/!\" symbolizes a small warning sign.

Ah, good.  Great minds think alike. :-)

Regarding the /!\ warning symbol, can you think of any existing dialog
that does that?  I like the idea itself, but I don't know how that could
be (easily) implemented.  Looking at an existing dialog code would help
me figure out how to do this.

> .                                                                     .
> |    Name                                                             |
> |    [ $sheetname 2                                                ]  |
> |    /!\ The sheet name is already used. Chose a unique name.         |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | [ Help ]                                       [  OK  ]  [ Cancel ] |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> I'm still a bit unsure whether we want to keep "Name" active, if the
> sheet is just moved. Although it doesn't make real sense (from the
> feature point-of-view), there is no good visual clue for the user why it
> is deactivated (first).
>
> Future Ideas:
>       * Separate the move / copy actions ... this would solve some
>         issues at once.

I agree with this generally; it's sub-optimal to use the same dialog to
handle both use cases.  But because this will require bit of an
implementation effort, let me shelve it for now.  We'll come back to
this at a later time.

>       * Think about the "Insert Before" thing ... it is not that obvious
>         what this means. Is there any way to make this more
>         understandable? 

Hmm.  This needs some thinking.

>       * Does any data / experience prove that the default (new) position
>         of the sheet should be directly after the source sheet?

I didn't see any usage data in the spreadsheet file I downloaded from
here

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:OOo31_Usage_Feedback_Data.ods

Anyone is welcomed to double-check it though.

> Did that help ... even if I just throw in some late ideas? ;-)

Yes, it did.  I guess we have some further work to do in this
dialog. :-)

Thanks a lot,

Kohei

-- 
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<kyoshida@novell.com>