Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2025-Dec-03

Re-sending the minutes with a few end-of-meeting tweaks and additions:

Present: Jonathan, Eyal, Martin, John, Heiko
Comments: Mike, Tex2002ans, Stuart

Tickets/Topics

 * Highlight column & row of first search result (even when Column/Row
   Highlighting is disabled)
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164978
   + disagree with the issue, cell frame is a sufficient indicator
     (Heiko)
   + Excel offers this as an option "[ ] Show Auto Highlight"
   + not against (Eyal)
   => accept with low priority and wait for volunteer

 * Invert "Do show again" wherever it's asked
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169313
   + agree (Mike)
   + “I understand what this does and no longer need to be told”
     (Tex2002ans)
   + different wording like "[x] Always ask for confirmation" or
     "[x] Always confirm" (Eyal)
   + another button next to No/Yes "Yes, don't ask again" (Eyal)
   + "[ ] Do not show again" sounds more familiar (Jonathan, John,
     Martin)
   + wonder about negating-agnostic languages (Jonathan)
   + internal names might be not logical anymore like
     QueryOverwriteMode = no means to show the query again, if the
     checkbox logic is inverted; could be solved by new variable
     names (Heiko)
   => ask the OP

 * Conceptual clash between color scheme on export and during display
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167292
   + inspired by a Reddit rant
   + print preview is WYSIWYG (Stuart)
   + a11y warning about low contrast is effective (Heiko)
     + could be shown on the print dialog as infobar "There are
       a11y warning, please check"
   + would not cover all cases such as Save (Eyal)
     + needs to be on the print preview, on the PDF export and
       as messagebox for print direct (to PDF) workflows
   => comment

 * Strategy for increasing likelihood of auto-enabling full
   RTL-CTL/CJK UI support
   + https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/2025/msg00099.html
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164250
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168719
   + Tools > Options > Languages: toggles for RTL/CTL and for CJK have
     been removed, which needs to be confirmed or rejected
     => can be reverted if unpopular (Jonathan)
     + alternative is to introduce some heuristics or to allow disabling
     + happy enable all and wait for user complaints (Heiko)
     + Am worried we will get complaints due to making some UI more
       complex for users who don't need RTL support, but ok with doing
       it (Eyal)
   + Paragraph alignment
     => default is still Left, no time to switch to Start before 26.2
        release (Jonathan)
     + in the long run or middle term we should change this (Heiko,
       Eyal)
   + Paragraph alignment at the toolbar
     + still left/right/centered/justified
     + should become start/end/centered/justified (in some to-be-
       determined order) and left/right optionally but hidden by default
       (Heiko, Eyal, Jonathan)
     + Start/End should be available for customization in master
       (Jonathan)
     => special icons missing for Start/End or rather the legancy Left/
        Right (and we may adjust the icons for Right/Left)
   + Text direction
     + default Left-To-Right (horizontal) or RTL depending on locale
       setting
     + discoverability of this option as a means of changing the default
       direction is insufficient (Eyal)
     + vertical for Mongolian, for example, is not detected/setup yet
       (Jonathan)
       + should be done later (Eyal)
   => mostly done, changes are effective, waiting for user feedback




On 03/12/2025 22:15, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> Present: Jonathan, Eyal, Martin, John, Heiko
> Comments: Mike, Tex2002ans, Stuart
>
> Tickets/Topics
>
>   * Highlight column & row of first search result (even when Column/Row
>     Highlighting is disabled)
>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164978
>     + disagree with the issue, cell frame is a sufficient indicator (Heiko)
>     + Excel offers this as an option "[ ] Show Auto Highlight"
>     + not against (Eyal)
>     => accept with low priority and wait for volunteers
>
>   * Invert "Do show again" wherever it's asked
>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169313
>     + agree (Mike)
>     + “I understand what this does and no longer need to be 
> told” (Tex2002ans)
>     + different wording like "[x] Always ask for confirmation" or
>       "[x] Always confirm" (Eyal)
>     + another button next to No/Yes "Yes, don't ask again" (Eyal)
>     + "[ ] Do not show again" sounds more familiar (Jonathan, John, Martin)
>     + wonder about negating-agnostic languages (Jonathan)
>     + internal names might be not logical anymore like 
> QueryOverwriteMode = no
>       means to show the query again, if the checkbox logic is inverted; 
> could
>       be solved by new variable names (Heiko)
>     => ask the OP
>
>   * Conceptual clash between color scheme on export and during display
>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167292
>     + inspired by a Reddit rant
>     + print preview is WYSIWYG (Stuart)
>     + a11y warning about low contrast is effective (Heiko)
>       + could be shown on the print dialog as infobar "There are
>         a11y warning, please check"
>     + would not cover all cases such as Save (Eyal)
>       + needs to be on the print preview, on the PDF export and
>         as messagebox for print direct (to PDF) workflows
>     => comment
>
>   * Strategy for increasing likelihood of auto-enabling full
>     RTL-CTL/CJK UI support
>     + https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/2025/msg00099.html
>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164250
>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168719
>     + Tools > Options > Languages: toggles for RTL and CTL/CJK has been
>       removed, which needs to be confirmed
>       => can be reverted if unpopular (Jonathan)
>       + alternative is to introduce some heuristics or to allow disabling
>       + happy enable all and wait for user complaints (Heiko)
>     + Paragraph alignment
>       => default is still Left, no time to switch to Start (Jonathan)
>       + in the long run or middle term we should change this (Heiko)
>     + Paragraph alignment at the toolbar
>       + still left/right/centered/justified
>       + should become start/end/centered/justified and left/right 
> optionally
>         but hidden by default (Heiko, Eyal, Jonathan)
>       + start/end should be available for customization in master 
> (Jonathan)
>       => special icons missing for start/end or rather the legacy left/ 
> right
>     + Text direction
>       + default Left-To-Right (horizontal) or RTL depending on locale 
> setting
>       + vertical for Mongolian, for example, is not detected/setup yet 
> (Jonathan)
>         + should be done later (Eyal)
>     => mostly done, changes are effective, waiting for user feedback


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