[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] named formatting attributs, overwrite automatic formatting attributs (paragraph / character)

Hello,

I read the Jean-François's response, and yes I agree with him on the
"style and direct formatting behaviour". My previous mail was just to
say I character formatting should behave like current paragraph
formatting and not the opposite.

But I disagree with Rafael and Jean-François on the fact that character
attribute buttons should apply character styles. That's what I mean by 
:
> But I don't like very much the idea to force people to use style
> formatting.
I admit that I wasn't very clear…
Still, I don't like the idea of applying character style with the
character attribute buttons because as you said "then there would be no
shortcut for character direct formatting". Also it is possible to apply
only one character style on a portion of text, what if I am a lambda
user (who doesn't know about style) and I want to have a bold + italic
text ?

For me character attribute buttons are fine and there is no need to
change them.

Regards

Maxime de Roucy

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:05:59 -0300, Rafael Rocha Daud wrote:
> Hello, Jean-François, you said:
>
> > To me there are two questions : the one Maxime asked, ie the 
> > homogeneity
> > between paragraph style and character style use. The second one is
> > whether the tool should encourage to a correct use of the tool or 
> > not.
> >
> > Homogeneity
> >
> > I share Maxime's thoughts and, imo, both style types should apply 
> > the
> > same, iow, applying a style should replace the underlying formatting
> > (direct or style).
> >
> > Correct use
> >
> > Styles are the first reason to adopt LibreOffice. This should be 
> > highly
> > emphasized and promoted. As a trainer, I always bring questions back 
> > to
> > styles: "3 times upon 2, using a style solves the problem" (yes, 3 
> > times
> > upon 2 ;). Hence, direct formatting should be discouraged. Better 
> > yet,
> > for instance, pressing the "B"old toolbutton should apply the 
> > correct
> > character style (bold emphasis by default) instead of setting the 
> > bold
> > property to the underlying characters.
> >
> > Side note: I feel a very important need for table styles in Writer.
>
> I actually described the way it is today, but happen to agree with
> you. I had been working for a little while on this subject, but
> haven't been able to produce a specification for it. Are you either a
> designer or a programmer? Would you care joining in the design list 
> to
> discuss this subject so maybe we can get it going?
>
> And Maxime, you said:
>
> Hello,
>
> For me, character style and paragraph style should behave the same.
> I change my mind and think that character style should behave like 
> the
> paragraph style :
> If you apply a style on something (text or paragraph) the style 
> should
> overwrite the preview style and directs attributs on this something.
> If you apply a direct attribut on something the direct attribut 
> should
> be merge with the preview style and direct attribut on this 
> something.
>
> But I don?t like very much the idea to force people to use style
> formatting?
>
> Regards
>
> Maxime de Roucy
>
>
> I believe you haven't read Jean-François's response, but if I
> understood it well, you do agree with him (and myself). I just want 
> to
> point out that nobody will force nothing: people that don't want to
> mess with styles (they would be wrong, but it would be OK :-)) could
> still use direct formatting, just like you proposed, it would still
> work. The real problem would be the character attribute buttons (bold
> and italic, mostly): if they applied character styles, like Jean
> proposed, then there would be no shortcut for character direct
> formatting. We would have to discuss it further on the convenience of
> this behaviour.
>
> I have one or two ideas on this, but would rather take them to the
> design list (you can also join there -- it's in the Cc as well) just
> to let this ux-advise list free of early stage discussions.
>
> Cheers./
> _______________________________________________
> Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list
> Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise


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