Re: [libreoffice-design] APP/Online LibreOffice

Hi Astron,

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 21:53:40 +0200, Astron wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > As it was explained at the conference, the code used in one will be 
> > used in
> > the other, so we won't have two suites. As for UI improvements we 
> > need to
> > make them in an incremental way. No one will change the UI 
> > overnight, it
> > simply is not realistic.
>
> The problem is that mobile platforms use completely different UI
> toolkits and also have completely different UI needs etc.

Did you attend Michael Meeks' presentation at the conference?
Michael said that LibreOffice Online (LOOL) uses HTML5 Canvas to 
display the user interface, in other words, it does not use a user 
interface toolkit.

Some background on HTML5 Canvas for those who are not familiar with it:
"The canvas element provides scripts with a resolution-dependent bitmap 
canvas, which can be used for rendering graphs, game graphics, or other 
visual images on the fly.

Authors should not use the canvas element in a document when a more 
suitable element is available. For example, it is inappropriate to use a 
canvas element to render a page heading: if the desired presentation of 
the heading is graphically intense, it should be marked up using 
appropriate elements (typically h1) and then styled using CSS and 
supporting technologies such as XBL.

When authors use the canvas element, they must also provide content 
that, when presented to the user, conveys essentially the same function 
or purpose as the bitmap canvas. This content may be placed as content 
of the canvas element. The contents of the canvas element, if any, are 
the element's fallback content."
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-canvas-element.html#the-canvas-element>

HTML5 Canvas accessibility (i.e. lack of accessibility) has been 
heavily discussed on W3C mailing lists.
HTML5 spec editor Ian Hickson has stated that creating an editor in 
Canvas makes no sense: 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JulSep/0024.html>. 
If I remember correctly, he used this as an argument for not making 
Canvas accessible.

However, specification editors cannot prevent HTML5 authors from doing 
such things, and Richard Schwerdtfeger (IBM) used this as an argument 
for making Canvas accessible: 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JulSep/0040.html>.

Issues and discussions around Canvas accessibility have also been 
collected at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/AddedElementCanvas> (a wiki 
used by the HTML5 Working Group).

When I asked Michael Meeks at the conference if LOOL was going to be 
made accessible, part of his response was a question whether I knew any 
Canvas-based applications that are accessible. Of course, I didn't. So 
Michael is aware of the accessibility problem that Canvas represents.

Using a UI toolkit instead of Canvas would at least allow some level of 
accessibility to screen readers: accessibility support is being added or 
has been added to such libraries as JQuery UI, YUI, Mootools and a few 
others. I believe that work on accessibility in UI toolkits for mobile 
applications has also started, but I think this is far from mature.


> For now, the
> best I could imagine on mobile platforms would be a capable ODF
> document viewer (unlike the existing viewers for Android).
> Anyway, on the whole I'd agree to the notion that we need a mobile,
> touch-oriented version of LibreOffice to stay afloat. (...)

Work on making touch-based interfaces accessible is also under way, if 
I am not mistaken.

Best regards,

Christophe


PS: The mails I send from Eudora don't get through to the list, so I am 
trying webmail now.


--
Christophe Strobbe
K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
Research Group on Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51
www.docarch.be
Twitter: @RabelaisA11y

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