[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo request for vinyl banner

Hi Jeff, all, 

Jeff Chimene wrote:
> On 02/07/2011 04:08 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> > Hi Jeff, *
> >
> > Jeff Chimene schrieb:
> > > Hi Bernard, Drew:
> > >
> > > Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I /really/
> > > appreciate your help! I've tried to answer your questions inline below.
> > > I still have a few of my own.
> > >
> > > On 02/06/2011 03:57 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> > > > Hi Jeff, *
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Chimene schrieb:
> > > > > Hi Folks:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm hoping someone can help w/ this request. I'd like to get a 5' wide
> > > > > banner for the SCALE event in California at the end of this month.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there an official logo that's at least 600dpi resolution?
> > > >
> > > > Please have a look at the  branding wiki page:
> > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Resources
> > >
> > > Got it. Thanks
> >
> > So you found the links there in the table? They are different from the
> > link you give here
> > > Drew: I'm thinking this image:
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-Initial-Artwork-Colors_Guidelines_Valid1.png
> > This is *not* the official logo file, it just describes how the logo
> > should be used.
>
> It was simply a starting point, not the final banner contents. I spoke
> too informally for the list.
>
> > The links in the table at
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Resources contain
> > the logo in different versions. Like the one I mentioned here:
> > > > The largest exported PNG version is 2000px width
> >
> > It's direct link in the contemporary version is:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial-Artwork-Logo_ColorLogoContemporary_2000px.png
>
> Thanks. I've been looking at that image.
>
> > > > but you can use Inkscape with the source file linked
> > > > there to export larger versions too.
> > >
> > > Hi Bernard:
> > >
> > > Is that the image here?
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-Initial-Artwork-Colors_Guidelines_Valid1.png
> > >
> > >
> > > If not, where do I find it?
> > See above.
> >
> > I can scale it via Gimp.
> >
> > Please *never* upscale a bitmap to get a larger image (except you want
> > to reach the pixelized view as a matter of artistic element).
>
> Right. I was going upscale the vector version. My apologies for the
> confusion. I realize I have to use Inkscape (upscale vector, not bitmap).

+1
> > If you can't use the vector source from the table, I'll create a bitmap
> > in the right dimensions for you.
>
> Well, I know far less about Inkscape than Gimp. However, I really don't
> want to make additional work for you.

It's not really hard to do so.
> > > The printer is named "VistaPrint"
> >
> > Know it - used it for my private business cards.
> > > It looks like the best resolution I can get with them is 75 dpi (see
> > > below)
> >
> > So you want a logo in 5' width and 75 dpi resolution?
> >
> > The file would be 5 (foot) x 12 (inch to foot) x 75 (DPI) = 4500 px  in
> > width and 1436 px in height.
> >
> > The resulting banner would be 5' x 1.596' (1,52m x 0,484m)
> >
> > I don't know if you want to print the "Basic" or "Contemporary" logo.
>
> Contemporary. Is that what Cor used?

Cor's vertical banner used the installer graphic containg the contemporary
logo.

The other banner (ordered by a developer - Kendy IIRC) uses the basic 
design.
> > While the basic version consists of only two colors (Green and Black),
> > the contemporary uses different gradients in the green tone and grey.
> >
> > I don't know if there will be a difference in the price - the gradient
> > between two different green tones will lead to a multitude of colors, so
> > it might be more expensive...
>
> The VistaPrint pricing does not seem to be color sensitive.

So I would prefer the contemporary version, looking more friendly and 
modern by providing gradients and replacing black by grey.
> > > > Especially with posters and banners please remember to include the
> > > > necessary white space area around the logo in your design.
> > >
> > > Right (see below re: full bleed)

Not only for bleed - the final result should contain the white space.

Therefore you have to add the bleed borders to the file - the only action
that really needs a bit of time.
> > > > > I see that
> > > > > there's an interesting design for a vertical banner. Is that design
> > > > > ready yet?
> > > >
> > > > Which design do you talk about?
> > > > Can you link it here?
> > >
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Banner_Rough_Ideas_fromcornouws.png
> >
> > There are different ideas on the file.
> >
> > Cor used no 3 on FOSDEM - see below.
>
> > From Cor's response, I found the zip file and the logo. I don't know how
> folks downstream (i.e. subsequent U.S. shows) would react to a vertical
> logo, but I think it's cool.
>
> > > > What size do you need?
> > >
> > > Full Bleed Size (starting document size)
> > > 71.80" x 30.20"
> > > 1824mm x 767mm
> > > 5385 x 2265 pixels
> >
> > That's not the vertical banner - do you speak of the logo banner again?
>
> Yes. That's the size from VistaPrint's specifications. The vertical
> banner would be rotated to fit. As far as I can tell, VistaPrint
> recommends an image sized to the above dimensions, full bleed. Without
> scaling the current images, I agree, there will be too much whitespace
> around the logo.

Not too much whitespace is my concern - too less is problematic.
> Here's my dilemma:
>
> 1. You've already done the work to upscale the vertical image. I'd like
> to reuse that work. But, I don't know how other people would react to a
> vertical orientation.

If you want to go with one banner, I'd leave the vertical one out, as the logo 
is in relative small scale on it.

With two banners, the smaller one could have the vertical orientation.
> 2. The contemporary logo would have to be upscaled to get to 5385 x 2265
> pixels. 

This doesn't mean more than a few seconds of work in Inkscape.

> > I don't know how the banner will be used at future tradeshows,
> > so I don't want to pre-position the image to handle the whitespace.

There is no sense in cutting and sewing the banner in order to modify the 
whitespace for different fairs and tradeshows.

I'd recomment to position it in the middle, because I think this would be
reasonable fo rmost use-cases.
> I guess the best answer is to scale the contemporary logo in svg format
> to VistaPrint's full-bleed measurements at a resolution that keeps the
> total file size under 12 Mb. If that can be done via PICT, that's fine.
> It may be that due to embedded font considerations, it's easier to send
> as a BMP.

I don't know what PICT means, but I'd recommend using PNG, as every
printer does know about their restrictions.
> I don't know what's involved to get Inkscape to export a PDF that's
> useable by VistaPrint (there's bound to be an issue w/ fonts).

My main concern is that Inkscape exports RGB colors while most printers
use CMYK colors in PDFs.

Fonts are not a problem, as the logo characters have already been 
converted to paths in the source.

There are PDF/EPS conversion problems with transparency in Inkscape
(sometimes with gradients too), so it is necessary to have a close look at
the export results.

In principle PDF export produces higher quality results, because the file 
stays in vector format (especially if the result needs to become rescaled a bit).
> [...]
> > > I'd like some feedback from you folks: do you want a 75 dpi banner, or
> > > should we go for higher resolution (but more $) Personally, I think the
> > > "LibreOffice-Initial-Artwork-Colors_Guidelines_Valid1.png" (if that's
> > > the logo) will be OK at 75 dpi: graphic edges are straight, sans-serif
> > > font. At a distance (>  6 feet), I think we can get by for a trade show.
> >
> > I think 75 dpi per color should be enough, but I'm not that experienced
> > in creating vinyl banners.
>
> How did the vertical banner look at that resolution? It seems like the
> shading at the upper left and lower right edges would benefit with
> higher resolution.

I don't think so: even gradients and shadings are not very detailed..
> > > If we buy by 10-Feb, we get a free banner which has the following
> > > dimensions:
> > >
> > > Full Bleed Size (starting document size)
> > > 35.70" x 20.20"
> > > 907mm x 513mm
> > > 2678 x 1515 pixels
> >
> > So you need this size too.
>
> If we can accomplish this by 10-Feb. After that, it's not free. I'd use
> the contemporary logo, in svg format and downscale it to the above
> dimensions. Again, the same export issues occur with the font.

Perhaps you could use this size for the vertical banner?

With some modifications in the source the broader width might be 
possible, i you want to avoid a white stripe at the side of the banner
(I don't know if you can cut the Vinyl banner without problems).
> > Please avoid scaling from one to another size (and if you need to:
> > downscaling to the smaller size is less problematic than upscaling).
> >
> > It would be best, if you would extract .png bitmap files from the source
> > with Inkscape.
> > > Document Trim Size (final size after being cut)
> > > 35.50" x 20.00"
> > > 902mm x 508mm
> > > 2662 x 1500 pixels
> > >
> > > Again, 75 dpi, but up close (<  3 ft) it should be OK.
> > >
> > > > Cor used a enlarged version of the installer image for FOSDEM, but there
> > > > have been some other proposals in the past...
> > >
> > > Is that image available?
> >
> > Yes - it is contained in the Initial Artwork package linked from the wiki:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-Initial-Artwork-Package.zip
>
> Right. Got it.
>
> > I extracted the file for Cor to a size of 6170 x 11811 px (for a banner
> > of 1 m height and 52 cm width in 300 dpi) - would be 4 m in 75 dpi ;-)
> >
> > Can you tell me the size you want it?
>
> Well, that size is interesting. According to VistaPrint's
> specifications, their full-bleed dimensions are 5385 x 2265 pixels. So,
> Cor's image would be too tall, and too narrow.
>
> I should think that downscaling to 5385 pixels would be OK. Whitespace
> for the vertical orientation wouldn't be so visually distracting as the
> whitespace of the horizontal orientation. 

I think it's the other way round: 

The horizontal logo only banner will not 
experience any problem in adding some more white space to the already 
existing white area.

Adding white areas to the vertical banner might be less attractive, as the 
image itself contains a border. showing cleary, that the design has been 
re-used from another resource...

> I think it would look good,
> but I don't want to force that decision on future tradeshow people.

Just discuss it here (and perhaps on the marketing list). If the group can
agree on a design and scale, we should use this one as "official resouce".
[...]

Best regards

Bernhard




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