Date: prev next · Thread: first prev next last
2011 Archives by date, by thread · List index

Hi Paolo, all,

just copying your mail from the archive in here, because I lost your original 
mail (see my other mail sent from a wrong account so it needs some time for 
approval, I guess)!

Paolo wrote:
I have done some progress in the Fields dialog (or Cross-Reference, as 
previously referred).Some points we must take into account, beyond what 
already said by Bjorn and me, is the number of clicks needed to complete a 
task versus how easy is to do them (by easy, I mean the distance between the 
two clicks and how clear is their visibility on the screen). Thinking about 
it, I made two mock-ups in HTML & CSS to the Wizard proposal. I just made the 
first step suggested by Björn, so there is not options for each task yeat.
You can interact with them in:
(Just tested in Firefox and Chrome)

The first proposal has in the first step just 2 task options: Set a field & 
Insert a field. The second step allow to set the field type and configure its 
proprieties. Done!

The second proposal has in the first step the choose of field type in each 
task (Set and Insert). The second step just allow to configure the field 
proprieties. Done!

In the Proposal 1, each task takes 2 or 3 clicks to be done. In the Proposal 
2, 2 clicks ever. But think is easier complete a task inProposal 1 than 2 
because it takes more time to look all possibilities now in the first step 
than just choose between 2 actions and then refine your choice.

If there is any a better way to present the Step 1 in the Proposal 2, 
keeping its 2 clicks and allowing easy to eye choise, I'd like to know. :D

Björn, I hope one of these proposals fit to your ideas. otherwise, please 
say me then I make a new mockup. :) I'd like to know your opinion on our next 

First of all: Thank you - great work! 

Your mocks point us to the unsolved fundations I wanted to work on today, but 
unfortunately won't come to. But I will spend a couple of hours in a train 
tomorrow, so I am optimistic I get to some results then.

The fundations we need to understand, before we can actually find a really 
good interface solution is a clustering of the different types of fields. You 
have done the clustering by "New" and "Existing". I am not 100% convinced this 
is the best clustering, because it is too general. 

I would like to find someting between perhaps 5 to 10 (ideal would be 7 - 
remember the limitations in the human short term memory) categories, the user 
can decide in the first step. Each presenting again 5 to 10 fields that in the 
next step can be configured (would give us room for up to 100 different types 
of fields we can add to LibO, so making this a sustainable solution for 
whatever kind of fields will be added in the future). 

My main problem here is, that I do not understand all types of fields 
available - which would be very helpful if trying to find a decent 

Additionally we should introduce some comfort functionallity like a filter 
mechanism, recently used or perhaps even favorite fields for quick retrival of 
the wanted fields.

Summing it up: Version 2 is much better than version 1, but still leaves room 
for further improvement.

Ok, more - including some mocks and a suggestion for a clustering - hopefully 


Am Dienstag, 25. Januar 2011, 14:11:39 schrieb Paulo José:
Hi Björn! :)

On 24-01-2011 14:26, Björn Balazs wrote:
My appologies for not stronger pointing to this being a thread. But I
think this:
is not a waste of time, because you had the time to get to know this
dialogue much better and hey - we need to iterate towards a good
solution anyhow.

Yeah, you're totally right! :D

So how can this dialogue be improved?

I think the approach of a tabbed interface is wrong in the first place.

What do user do in here? They want to INSERT a field / variable etc. or
CONFIGURE the set field.

I would include that user can insert Databases to document. Perhaps this
should not be here... :)

What will user NOT do in here? User do not want to change a set field to
something totally different in this dialogue. If they want to do so,
they can simply delete the set field and add a new one.

For sure! ;) Great point!

What is the conclusion? 1. We need to make it as easy as possible to
find the right field for the user.  2. We need to make it as easy as
possible to configure the set field (e.g. update the date in a fixed
date field).

Yeah, and it includes make it easier to user search and finds an
existent reference (or another field), like Cedric initially had
pointed, because could be many of them in a big document.

How can we achieve this?
1. We need a wizard, that really helps the user to find the field he
needs. This is basically the content included in the tabs and in the
"Type" column. Also some content of the "Select" column would be of
relevance (e.g. the Select column for Type==Sender or Type==Statistics
should rather be included in the wizard, while the Select Column of
Type==Date or Type==Author would rather be part of step 2.

I got it. It means these fields that have 3 steps to complete (Sender,
Statistics) could be complete by 2 steps. Great! :) Although, it's
important find a way to don't bloat  the first step and make it clear.

2. For each Field the user can insert we need a specialized dialogue
allows to intuitively configure the content of the field. Perhaps we
need to allow some interaction like: remove the field and start the
wizard again to insert a new field without loosing relevant formating
options - but I am not sure about that.

So, Paulo - and anyone else interested:

I guess we should start with step 1. How should a wizard look like that
allows the user to comfortabely select the wanted field? This wizard
should be capable to add any new functionality that can possible make
it into LibO at any time. It should be informative, so the user knows
wether he has found the right field and it could make suggestions about
any related field, the user might be searching for.

Yeah, by informative I think it could present some short, friendly and
objective text about the possibilities of this dialog. Would be great
allow to user preview the result, to make sure he gets what he wants
before complete the wizard. If the user make any step wrong or changes
its mind, should be easy change any step of wizard, no need to start all
steps again.

I'm thinking about a wizard gradually filling with options the dialog,
and emphasizing the current step. Under all, a preview box showing the
result. Each step could present some informations and along the process,
they could be changed to better helps the user. Will be great if the
user can't need to use Help to complete this wizard, and I totally agree
with you about it should be intuitive, above all.

Once we have a solution for this, we can then make our way through the
individual dialogues needed to present the different kind of fields

What do you think? Please provide mocks that we can discuss!

Alright, I will try to work on some mock-ups and then show them to
community discuss. :D Björn, you really gave great suggestions and made
a good summary of what we should do. Thank you! :D


Voluntary Open Source Usability:
Commercial Open Source Usability:

Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
List archive:
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Privacy Policy | Impressum (Legal Info) | Copyright information: Unless otherwise specified, all text and images on this website are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License. This does not include the source code of LibreOffice, which is licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPLv2). "LibreOffice" and "The Document Foundation" are registered trademarks of their corresponding registered owners or are in actual use as trademarks in one or more countries. Their respective logos and icons are also subject to international copyright laws. Use thereof is explained in our trademark policy.