Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] accessibility request for libreoffice (mac version)

Hi Massimo,

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:56:47 +0200, Massimo Vettoretti
<massimo@vettoretti.net> wrote:
> Il giorno 12/apr/2011, alle ore 11.43, Christophe Strobbe ha scritto:
> > What kind of accessibility issues did you encounter? Are they related
to
> > the user interface (for example dialogs where certain fields have no
> > label)? Are they related to missing access to accessibility features in
> > documents (for example, no access to the alternative text for an
image)?
> > Does the keyboard get trapped in certain parts of dialogs? 
>
> Hello Christophe and all.
>
> There are  several kind of accessibility issues all around the suite. In
> example, it is not possible to read a document from the beginning to the
> end using the appropriate Voice Over command: the TTS stops reading
after a
> paragraph. There is no way to know for sure if a page is  complete and a
> new one is beginning. Only basic text attributes are reported by the
screen
> reader: in example, I can find out  if a text is bolded  or underlined,
but
> i have no way to figure out if it is superscripted or not. If an image
is
> present, Voice Over doesn't report it. I can create a table, but I
cannot
> explore it  or even know that a table is present. 

Can you do all these things in iWork Pages or other office suites that are
available for Mac OS (NeoOffice, IBM Lotus Symphony)? If yes, then we
should look at registering bugs for LibreOffice. The bugs have probably to
do with missing or incorrect mappings between the internal OpenOffice.org
API and the native (accessibility) API for Mac OS. I don't know enough
about the Apple APIs to suggest specific improvements. I only know that
text features like bold, italic and underline are not part of the NS
Accessibility Protocol
<http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/ApplicationKit/Protocols/NSAccessibility_Protocol/Reference/Reference.html>.


> Format/character or format/paragraph are dialogs witch a  VO user can
> understand with no little difficulties.  From a... blind point of view,
:-)
> the options are grouped by category. 

"Format Paragraph" and "Format Character" are dialogs with tabbed
interfaces. When you say "category" are you referring to the different tabs
in these dialogs or to groupings of controls inside the tabs?
(All accessibility APIs that I am aware of, except those on Mac OS, have a
"role" for "tab page" or "tab item". I don't know how tabs are identified
to assistive technology on Mac OS.)


> There are several buttons to select
> the options category you want to change or review. Ok, with Voice Over I
> can access them, but the options and their parameters...  that is a
> completely different story!  I cannot use standard VO movement commands,
I
> have to use the tab key instead. But, if I do so,  Voice Over do not
> announce the controls' labels. And, even if I can change values in edit
> boxes and check and uncheck  check boxes, there are other controls I
cannot
> access with the keyboard, in particular pop up buttons. 

This could be due to missing mappings to the Mac OS accessibility API,
especially if you encounter no such problems in other applications. This
can probably be checked with the Accessibility Inspector: see
<http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/UserExperience/RN-AccessibilityInspector/_index.html>
and
<http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXTesting/OSXAXTestingApps.html>.
Can anyone with access to a Mac system do this and report back if labels
are actually connected with the corresponding controls?


> Some dialogs are a
> little bit confusing: when I explore them using VO standard movement
> commands, the controls are reported in a  meaningless order: in example,
Ok
> and Cancel buttons should be the last two controls within a dialogs; in
> some cases, they are not. 

I think these issues need to be registered as bugs. I would suggest one
bug per dialog, and each bug should precisely describe in which order the
controls are encountered. Do you know how and where to report bugs?


> All that I am talking about is referred to Writer. Of course, there are
a
> similar list of  issues for Calc and, if you want, we can discuss it.

If you want to discussed the issues in other applications, I suggest that
you create a separate discussion thread for each application, just to make
it easier to sort through e-mails ;-)


> Last but not list,  I apologize for my  horrible english. I do my
best...
> and hope you'll understand.

Don't worry. I think we understand each other.


Best regards,

Christophe

-- 
Christophe Strobbe
K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
Research Group on Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51 
www.docarch.be
Twitter: @RabelaisA11y

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to accessibility+help@libreoffice.org
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted