Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call

William Gathoye (LibreOffice) kirjoitti 23.1.2020 klo 11.53:
> On 23/01/2020 09:03, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote:
> > Of course we are worried about Bugzilla, but there are steps being taken
> > to address the Mozilla/upstream fracture.
>
> Yep, but if I was the one who decides, using a project that hasn't much
> maintenance like it used to be is risky IMHO. We are a bit in a
> situation like what we had with Pootle and we have now with AskBot, but
> that's another topic. :)

It isn't lack of maintenance. This is a very specific case, where 
upstream and downstream diverged and are now being brought together. Of 
course everyone should take great care that this never happens again.

> > I believe GNOME's decision to drop Bugzilla was misinformed, same as
> > freedesktop.org's.
>
> Discussing with some GNOME devs at last FOSDEM, they said to me they saw
> a bunch of new contributions since the GitLab migration. I cannot
> confirm, but I wouldn't be surprised either with all the feedback I
> received about the BZ slowness and UX not friendliness, this is a
> problem reported by "new-gen" contributors used to use GitHub, Jira and
> all. :/

GNOME adopted GitLab as a solution for multiple different things. They 
could have kept Bugzilla while integrating it with GL, just like we do 
with Gerrit + BZ.

> > Overall I am rather puzzled by the inability of big FOSS projects to
> > collaborate on helping improve a crucial piece of infra they rely on and
> > instead dropping it for some shiny open core thing that ships something
> > kind of similar.
>
> I'm joining your POV if there weren't alternative available *if missing
> features are implemented*. :)

I don't want to see change and churn for its own sake.

> At the last FOSDEM I also discussed with some GitLab guys, and they
> would even be willing to put some people to help, like they did with
> Debian and GNOME. KDE is in the evaluation process to migrating away
> from Phabricator to GitLab as well[1].

KDE will not drop Bugzilla, though.

Some quotes from a recent discussion where KDE contributors weighed in:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21113175

"Gitlab's issues feature just isn't powerful enough to be more than a 
developer's task list. Since it's completely label based, it's hell to 
use when you've got bug reports coming in from non-contributors. Even 
classifying issues by OS needs to be done through labels..." (Krita lead 
dev)

"This is my problem currently with the move from Phabricator to Gitlab, 
we are losing tons of features: review approval, meta project 
(documentation, visual design group, promo, website, ...), mockups, meta 
tasks and more. And those features exist but only in the enterprise 
edition, that is not open source." (KDE dev & design contributor)

> That's up to TDF to take decision knowing that in all changes you'll get
> rejections. For these cases, two ways pipelining between BZ and GitLab
> issue tracker is possible IMHO. And for what is worth mentioning the
> experience can be started by replacing Redmine? :)

In my view, with the future Bugzilla update we could replace Redmine 
with Bugzilla.

I ask you to remain calm and wait for some time while we figure out this 
BZ situation. If you come to FOSDEM, I can tell you more on what I am 
doing to try and solve it.

Ilmari

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