Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] to duplicate an existing style

On 8 September 2011 16:33, Rafael Rocha Daud <rrdaud@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Regina, Astron, all,
>
> Em 07-09-2011 18:07, libreoffice-ux-advise-request@lists.freedesktop.org
> escreveu:
> > Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 23:06:34 +0200
> > From: Regina Henschel<rb.henschel@t-online.de>
> > Subject: Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] to duplicate an existing style
> >
> > Hi Astron,
> >
> > Astron schrieb:
> > > > > >  I guess, that adding "Copy" to the page styles will be easier than
> > > > > > adding a
> > > > > >  linking feature. But I have not examined the code.
> > >
> > > >  Could it be a good idea to just copy Scribus's behaviour [1]? It gives
> > > >  you buttons for
> > > >  [New]     [Clone]
> > > >  [Import]  [Delete]
> > > >  where "New" always creates a new empty style (that is, a copy of the
> > > >  default style)  and "Clone" creates a copy of the currently selected
> > > >  style (btw, I like "Duplicate", as initially proposed by Olivier, much
> > > >  better as a name for the button). Inheritances can then be defined
> > > >  later on.
> >
> > You need inheritance from the beginning to fill the fields with the
> > inherited values. That there is no visual distinction between inherited
> > and set values is a different problem.

I am not sure I get this completely, Regina.
# I think it would be quite possible to just copy the entire default
style when using [New]. Also, of course, every style created via [New]
would then inherit from the default style I suppose, every style has
to depend on something).
# Every style created with [Duplicate] (or [Clone]) would inherit from
the same style the original style inherited from.


> I believe Astron's own proposal on the Paragraph Style window addresses this
> in an elegant way

Sure, it solves a few problems and extending the list box with eg grey
text for inherited definitions might be an okay visualisation...
Yet, the problem for most people is that they have never extensively
worked with styles and might not understand intricacies like
inheritances. I think most people don't have any understanding of
technologies like CSS etc.,
:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Organizer-rdsgn.png.
> Today we have only a one-liner list of definitions for the style. He
> suggested a box with one line for each definition, with columns for
> different informations. The list appears in the Organizer tab, and could
> allow to manage each definition directly from the Organizer tab (e.g. remove
> it from that style). Also, it should be quite simple to indicate there
> whether the definition is inherited, and even from what style (e.g.:
> "Inherited from Body Text") in a column inside that list.
> > I would like to get the linking feature to the page style too, so that
> > e.g. changing the margin in the parent style will also change the margin
> > in the child style. Often there are only little differences between
> > parent and child.
>
> +1. Plus it would stop puzzling people because of the different behavior
> here.
> > You can it see the other way round too. Cloning is first "new with
> > inheritance" and then "breaking the link".
> >
> > For inexperienced users, both cloning and linking should be shown, so
> > that he has the chance to learn, that there is a feature "linking".
>
> +1. I am up for easing the general comprehension of the way styles work.
> > "Import" would be nice, because it is now hidden in the document
> > template organizer.
> >
> > > >  Ultimately, I don't think inheritances are very intuitive [2] and
> > > >  there is probably not a very good way to present them to the user, so
> > > >  we might as well try to keep them out of the hands of at least
> > > >  inexperienced users.
>
> See above, Astron. I believe your own proposal solves that (you might
> disagree, since you designed it).
> > Those inexperienced users will not use styles, far less create own styles.
> >
> > I have learned just, that cloning is already possible for page styles,
> > but it is in a wrong place, see
> > https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=12339
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Regina
>
> Cheers.
> Daud./