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Hi :)

This mailing list is a gateway from the Microsquish world so we have got to
be able to handle whatever systems MS users are using at any point in
time.  We cannot expect them to magically know all our individual pet
hates.  We cannot expect them to change ALL their systems at the same time
just in order to be able to communicate with us.

We cannot be unwelcoming and petulant because many people have stayed away
from linux for exactly that reason.  Various projects such as Ubuntu
started using a  "Code of Conduct" to welcome people in  One of the crucial
jobs of this mailing list is to be welcoming instead of judgmental.

Regards from
a Tom :)

On 13 July 2018 at 23:14, Virgil Arrington <> wrote:

On 07/13/2018 12:57 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
So use Thunderbird on Mint and stop using your phone. Or take the
trouble to edit recipients on your phone, or get a better mail app on
your phone.

FWIW, I use claws, which is available for a range of systems.

Mails from this list include this header:

List-Post: <>

and that tells your mail program that it should reply to the list. So
the list is not broken, your mailer is if it doesn't.

Even though Dave has bid me farewell, I do want to respond more fully
for the benefit of the list.

Tom had very accurately described the behavior most of us seem to
experience daily with the LO mailing list, that hitting "Reply"
typically responds to the original sender while hitting "Reply All"
responds to original sender with a Cc to the list. Thunderbird has added
a "Reply List" button which is helpful in addressing this type of behavior.

Dave responded to Tom claiming that Tom's description of the design of
the LO list simply isn't true and that any email client that behaves as
Tom described is "broken." When I agreed with Tom description, Dave
advised me that, if my mailer doesn't display the header as his does, it
is because my mailer is "broken." I have been on the LO mailing list for
many years and none of the mailers I have used, whether under Windows,
Linux, or Android, have displayed the header as Dave describes. Rather,
they all display it as seen in my response to Tom below:

-------- Original message --------
From: Tom Davies <>
Date: 7/13/18 9:55 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Dave Howorth <>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Calculate difference between two
dates (with time)

You'll see that, even though I received the email from the LO list, the
header states that it was sent from Tom to Dave, with a Cc to the list.

Now, apparently Dave has found a mailer that behaves differently and I'm
happy for him. Of course, that doesn't mean that any program that
doesn't behave as his does is "broken." That's the M$ mentality,
insisting that the whole world comply with its way of working no matter
if it is unique.

I think we can all agree the LO list behaves differently than other
email lists. I have belonged to many other email lists and they all --
with the sole exception of the LO list -- reply directly to the list by
hitting "Reply." Based on posts that I have read on this list over many
years, it appears that this is the most common behavior with the
majority of LO list users across a wide variety of email client
software. Like Tom, I have never seen a post that claimed, as Dave did,
that hitting "Reply" responds directly to the list.

Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere. Since other mailing lists are
designed in such a way that hitting "Reply" responds to the list on all
email clients, it seems that the LO list could likewise be so designed.
Tom has suggested that the LO list designers have deliberately chosen
not to design it that way because most users don't *want* to respond to
the list by clicking "Reply." Dave has responded by saying that the LO
list is behaving just fine and everybody else should just use a
different mailer. He even ordered me to stop using my phone to respond
to LO emails.

So, assuming both Tom and Dave are accurately describing the behavior of
the LO list on their respective software, there a several possible

1. The LO list could be redesigned to behave like other mailing lists so
that hitting "Reply" responds to the list, not the individual sender.
2. The many, many, many LO list members having to hit "Reply all" could
all discard their favorite email clients because they are obviously
3. Users writing a response by hitting "Reply all" could delete the
individual sender and then move the LO list from the "Cc:" line to the
"To:" line.
4. The recipient of double messages could hit "Delete" to get rid of the
extra message.

One thing I have learned in my six plus decades of life is that there is
little to be gained from trying to order and direct the behavior of
others. As a recipient of LO list emails, solution #4 is the only one
that lies completely within my control. I can't make the LO list
designers change the list design. Try as he might, Dave can't make all
of the list members change their email client software, nor can we force
each other to take the time to edit their header to ensure that double
emails aren't sent. If I don't want to receive double emails, all I can
do is hit "Delete."

I can also do as Dave did and block all LO list members who send double
emails, but that seems counterproductive. If one blocks all of the LO
list users who "Reply all" without deleting the individual from the
"To:" line, then s/he might miss out on some helpful information about
LO in future emails. I assume we have joined this list to learn more
about the program and become more proficient with it. If we just block
each other because we're offended at having to hit "Delete" one extra
time, then we may be cutting off our nose to spite our face.


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