[libreoffice-users] Reply, Reply all, Reply list, and getting offended (was Calculate difference between two,dates (with time))

On 07/13/2018 12:57 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
> So use Thunderbird on Mint and stop using your phone. Or take the
> trouble to edit recipients on your phone, or get a better mail app on
> your phone.
>
> FWIW, I use claws, which is available for a range of systems.
>
> Mails from this list include this header:
>
> List-Post: <mailto:users@global.libreoffice.org>
>
> and that tells your mail program that it should reply to the list. So
> the list is not broken, your mailer is if it doesn't.

Even though Dave has bid me farewell, I do want to respond more fully 
for the benefit of the list.

Tom had very accurately described the behavior most of us seem to 
experience daily with the LO mailing list, that hitting "Reply" 
typically responds to the original sender while hitting "Reply All" 
responds to original sender with a Cc to the list. Thunderbird has added 
a "Reply List" button which is helpful in addressing this type of behavior.

Dave responded to Tom claiming that Tom's description of the design of 
the LO list simply isn't true and that any email client that behaves as 
Tom described is "broken." When I agreed with Tom description, Dave 
advised me that, if my mailer doesn't display the header as his does, it 
is because my mailer is "broken." I have been on the LO mailing list for 
many years and none of the mailers I have used, whether under Windows, 
Linux, or Android, have displayed the header as Dave describes. Rather, 
they all display it as seen in my response to Tom below:

> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Tom Davies <tomcecf@gmail.com>
> > Date: 7/13/18 9:55 AM (GMT-06:00)
> > To: Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk>
> > Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Calculate difference between two
> > dates (with time)

You'll see that, even though I received the email from the LO list, the 
header states that it was sent from Tom to Dave, with a Cc to the list.

Now, apparently Dave has found a mailer that behaves differently and I'm 
happy for him. Of course, that doesn't mean that any program that 
doesn't behave as his does is "broken." That's the M$ mentality, 
insisting that the whole world comply with its way of working no matter 
if it is unique.

I think we can all agree the LO list behaves differently than other 
email lists. I have belonged to many other email lists and they all -- 
with the sole exception of the LO list -- reply directly to the list by 
hitting "Reply." Based on posts that I have read on this list over many 
years, it appears that this is the most common behavior with the 
majority of LO list users across a wide variety of email client 
software. Like Tom, I have never seen a post that claimed, as Dave did, 
that hitting "Reply" responds directly to the list.

Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere. Since other mailing lists are 
designed in such a way that hitting "Reply" responds to the list on all 
email clients, it seems that the LO list could likewise be so designed. 
Tom has suggested that the LO list designers have deliberately chosen 
not to design it that way because most users don't *want* to respond to 
the list by clicking "Reply." Dave has responded by saying that the LO 
list is behaving just fine and everybody else should just use a 
different mailer. He even ordered me to stop using my phone to respond 
to LO emails.

So, assuming both Tom and Dave are accurately describing the behavior of 
the LO list on their respective software, there a several possible 
solutions.

1. The LO list could be redesigned to behave like other mailing lists so 
that hitting "Reply" responds to the list, not the individual sender.
2. The many, many, many LO list members having to hit "Reply all" could 
all discard their favorite email clients because they are obviously 
"broken."
3. Users writing a response by hitting "Reply all" could delete the 
individual sender and then move the LO list from the "Cc:" line to the 
"To:" line.
4. The recipient of double messages could hit "Delete" to get rid of the 
extra message.

One thing I have learned in my six plus decades of life is that there is 
little to be gained from trying to order and direct the behavior of 
others. As a recipient of LO list emails, solution #4 is the only one 
that lies completely within my control. I can't make the LO list 
designers change the list design. Try as he might, Dave can't make all 
of the list members change their email client software, nor can we force 
each other to take the time to edit their header to ensure that double 
emails aren't sent. If I don't want to receive double emails, all I can 
do is hit "Delete."

I can also do as Dave did and block all LO list members who send double 
emails, but that seems counterproductive. If one blocks all of the LO 
list users who "Reply all" without deleting the individual from the 
"To:" line, then s/he might miss out on some helpful information about 
LO in future emails. I assume we have joined this list to learn more 
about the program and become more proficient with it. If we just block 
each other because we're offended at having to hit "Delete" one extra 
time, then we may be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Virgil



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