[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project

Hi, Paul,

On 11/3/13 1:53 PM, Paul wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> > Before you can say any program *is* serious competition, you have to
> > determine which products, or product levels, you are going to
> > compare. Office is available in many forms, similar to the different
> > levels of comfort/convenience packages in automobiles.  LO comes in
> > just one flavor.  Kingsoft Office in 2 flavors.  Chocolate and
> > Vanilla.  OK, that's not quite right.   LOL
> Ok, granted, but when someones says MS Office (like you did) I happen
> to think primarily of Word and Excel. I'll even normally consider that
> Powerpoint and Access are in there.

When I say MS Office, I'm always talking Pro, since I include having 
Access as part of the meaning of the phrase.  We both made the same 
error of not being exactly clear about the contents of MS Office.  It's 
like talking about a 2013 Prius.  When it came out, there was only one 
model, and when you said Prius, everyone knew which car you meant.  Now, 
I think there are 5 Prius models, so everyone needs to know which model 
you are discussing.

> I don't consider OneNote (never
> used it, no idea what it is),

I just looked at OneNote, it's like a massive sticky note on steroids. 
It looks like you can stick any kind of document, file, handwritten 
notes, audio files, all in the same sticky note.  Look like it's part 
word processor, part spreadsheet, part just about anything you can think 
of.  This looks like it could be a great thing if you're part of a team 
and in the brainstorming stage.  Everyone can add their own thoughts, 
notes, files, audio clips, I have no idea what else.  LO has nothing 
like this.  In fact, I've never seen anything like it.

> Outlook or Publisher to be part of that
> package. That may be old fashioned of me, but I don't recall ever
> having an MS Office version that came with Publisher. That was always
> in one of the premium, too-expensive-to-even-consider packages.

Outlook and Publisher used to be available only as standalone packages. 
 They weren't part of Office Professional 4.3 (Windows for Workgroups 
days), but it's part of Office Professional 2003.

> And
> I'd never even heard of SkyDrive till now.

Basically, I consider it MS's answer to Apple's iCloud.  I don't know 
the specifics of either systems as I don't use either one.  AFAIK, 
anyone can use SkyDrive, you don't have to have MSO of any flavor.  Just 
an MS account for Windows Live, or whatever they call it now.

> I'll grant you that a lot of people do use Outlook as part of the
> package, and it is more than just an email client, but for me it's a
> different application altogether, and not what I typically think of
> when I think of an office suite.

At one time, I used Outlook 2007 as my email client.  Simply installed 
only that program from my copy of Office Professional 2007.  <G>

Everyone is free to consider the contents of Office however they want. 
But, if it's going to be part of a discussion, then people need to be 
specific about what they are talking about so there's no confusion.

> So I finally see your real argument (the bugs and stuff, as I said,
> being a red herring): No other office suite, LO included, can compete
> against the full spectrum of software provided by the premium version
> of MS Office. I have to agree with that.

In another post or two, I stipulated that LO and Office Home and 
Business were competitive.   Now that I've read about OneNote, and have 
an inkling about it's potential, I have to take that statement back.  I 
think LO lags behind just a bit.

> That said, personally, I would still regard LO as serious competition
> to MS Office.

LOL  But, which version of MS Office!  <G>

> The mindset of "must use MS Office, because everybody
> else uses it" is the greatest barrier to uptake of *anything* but
> MSO, but I believe enough people are starting to shift out of that
> mindset.

You won't get any argument about the mindset from me.  None at all.  And 
you certainly don't want to be replacing "I have to have MSO ???) with 
"I have to have LO".

But if you are truly going to avoid any mindset, you have to be willing 
to consider other office suite options.  There's all the heritage that 
LO belongs to, and that includes Open Office, Lotus Symphony, and Oxygen 
Office, all of which I know little about.  Maybe there's others, I don't 
know.  Plus other office suites, such as Ashampoo, Alantis, Ssuite, 
Softmaker Office, Abiword, Crystal Office, SS Office (aka Ssuite I've 
mentioned), Papyrus, Kingsoft, and who knows how many others.  I tried 
the word processor for SS Office a few weeks ago, I really liked the 
interface.  But I didn't try to get serious with it as there's no Mac 
version.

I went on a search for MSO alternatives one time, can you tell?     LOL

If considering an alternative, the correct way to look for something is 
to sit down, take your time, and analyze what you are currently doing 
with MSO, any package.  Then download and try out the alternatives, and 
pick the one that you feel comfortable with using, and does what you 
need and have anticipated you will need in the future.

> So that aside, enough people will consider LO as an
> alternative to MSO, because it does everything they need. Yes, there
> are some people that need the advanced features of MSO, and yes even
> more people need Outlook, but enough people don't need the advanced
> features only available in the premium editions, and prefer a third
> party email application anyway, so for them LO provides all they need
> as an alternative to MSO, and it does that job well. That for me makes
> it serious competition.

I'd say most people don't even need the database component.  H E double 
hockey sticks, they don 't even know what a database is.  And as Stefan 
Weigel posted, 
news://news.gmane.org:119/527696A4.1020109@bildungskreis.org, Base does 
not replace Access.

> But that's a difference of opinion on what the statement means. And now
> that I understand what you meant, my question is answered. Thank you.

You're welcome.

> > And you aren't competing against *just* MSO, you are competing with
> > every other office package out there.  Ford doesn't just compete with
> > Chevy, they compete with Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Mini-Cooper,
> > ET. AL.
> This is just confusing the issue. You *are* competing against *just*
> MSO when the question is about a viable alternative to MSO. None of the
> other packages are relevant to the discussion of "is LO a viable
> alternative to MSO"

Not really.  Everyone is competing against similar programs from other 
vendors.  Let's say you only need a word processor and spreadsheet.  If 
you sit down and analyze your needs, LO will be competing against 
everyone that has those two programs and are looking for an MS 
alternative, and they all (AFAIK) advertise Word compatibility.  How 
compatible, I don't know.  I'm using a writing program right now that 
has Word compatibility, but it's not a word processor.

And, it comes with a real, up to date manual, 530 pages long.  Yes, it's 
a commercial program, but it's only $45 US.

What irritates me to almost no end is, people have a goal they want to 
meet with their computer(s), but rather than find the software that gets 
them to their goal, they change the goal to fit the software they've 
found and/or have.  I look for the tools that get me to my goal, I don't 
change my goal to fit the tools I have.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.2.3


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