[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project

To shorten up this message, I've deleted all but Kracked's reply.

On 11/3/13 10:36 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> Sure, LO does not have as many "modules" as the professional version of
> MSO.  That said, since there are already FOSS packages to do many of
> those missing "modules", why should LO have their developers work on
> those as well as the "basic" office suite modules?
>
> Word              -- >   LO Writer
>       plugin        -- >   LO Formula
> Excel              -- >   LO Calc
> PowerPoint    -- >   LO Presentation
> OneNote        -- >   . . . there should be free packages or extensions
> to replace this [never used this]
> Outlook          -- >  . . . Mozilla Thunderbird or other FOSS email
> clients and their extensions should do the job [does for me]
> Publisher        -- >  . . . Inkscape [maybe] or maybe Scribus for some jobs
> Access           -- >   LO Base
> SkyDrive       -- >   . . . there should be free services to replace
> this [never used this, but have used a "cloud drive" once]
>
> none included  -- >  LO Drawing

The subject is to compare "suite" to "suite", not "suite" to "suite plus 
others".  When you start adding the "plus others", you can turn your 
computer in to just about anything, and the comparison becomes 
useless/meaningless.

Publisher and Inkscape are not the same thing.  Although you can use 
Inkscape for some very basic DTP items.  But I dare you to set up a book 
or manual with it.  People used to do, and may still do, the same thing 
with Corel Draw.

If you want to add additional software for the LO side of your example, 
then you have to allow the same additions on the MSO side.  Level 
playing field, and all of that.

Which modifies your list to the following, at least:

Publisher               -->          Scribus
Inkscape                -->          Inkscape

The playing field is one program compared to one program, not one 
program to many programs.

> So, Lo does not include all of the modules of MSO.  So what.  You are
> able to add and remove modules of MSO depending on your need.  So, if
> you do not have a module in the LO office suite, you add a FOSS package
> to give you that functionality.  That is what I have done over the years.

The point is, the modules are part of MSO, supplied by MSO.  Comparable 
modules are not supplied by MSO.

I am comparing suites, not computers.  I don't care, for the purpose of 
this discussion, if the computers can do the same thing.  Can the same 
type of suites do the same thing?  If you want to compare the final 
abilities of the computer, then you have to allow substitutions for the 
MS side of the comparison as well.

So, let's substitute Adobe Pagemaker for Publisher, and Corel Draw for 
Inkscape.  Which side offers the user more "horsepower" for the job?

> Sure it is hard to find any FOSS package that reads .pub files, but
> there are FOSS packages that will create the same projects as Publisher
> will do.  They may not work the same as Publisher, but they get the
> job[s] done.

It's hard to find anything that reads .pub files, even older .pub files.

The job gets done *only* if the software is capable of doing the job.  A 
pickup does essentially the same job as Kenworth tractor w/ 40' flatbed. 
 But there are jobs the pickup can't do.

> SkyDrive, what is so important to have that "name brand", when you can
> do the job with other packages and services?

Once again, comparing suite to suite only, not suite to a range of software.

The inherent problem faced by the "range of software" solutions is the 
interoperability of the range of software.  Which doesn't always work well.

> The real mindset, for me, is if there is already a FOSS package, or just
> a free one, that does the job of these extra modules of MSO, then why
> should the developers really spend their valuable time recreating them.
> Why do we need a LO Email when there are several good packages out there
> that has a many year development cycle behind it.  Our developers would
> need years of work to get that far along.  Someone once suggested having
> other LO modules that would make a "all in one" office suite of software
> marketing statement, but the goal of LO, seems to me, for creating the
> best office suite that includes a word processor, spread sheet,
> presentation, data base front end, vector drawing package, and a
> mathematical formula creation editor.  It never was, in my opinion, a
> goal to create a replacement for Outlook or a cloud service.  How will a
> free software company pay for the hardware and bandwidth to offer a
> cloud-based service?  There are plenty of email clients and web mail
> clients to do the work of Outlook and services to replace SkyDrive.

Interoperability, for one.  Just because FOSS program A creates an .svg 
file, doesn't mean FOSS program B can correctly read it.  But if Word 
creates a .docx file, all the other modules in Office that are designed 
to read the .docx file will be able to do that.  Barring bugs, of course.

I've stipulated that LO *is* comparable to MSO Home and Office.  But 
it's misleading to make statements that make it sound like LO is 
comparable to *all* versions of MSO.

It's the misleading statements (not to mention to hard the unfixed bugs 
that affect my use of LO), that frankly, pi$$ me off.  It's like 
listening to a bunch of politicians tell you what you want to hear, 
which may not be the truth.

An aside...  Base question...  Base needs an separate database program 
that is just accesses, correct?  If so, Base is not comparable to 
Access, which is the database program.

> I know I have seen references on these lists for options that replace
> OneNote for LO users.  I do not remember what they were though.  Since I
> never used OneNote, I can not tell what would be the best option to do
> what it does.

I've not used OneNote either, I use a Mac!    LOL    For the time being, 
anyway.   <G>

> As for a "serious" competition for MSO, well look at the FOSS record in
> Europe.  I would say LO is a serious contender due to the fact that more
> and more large organizations, plus regional and national governments are
> "scrapping" MSO for LO and other FOSS options.  Do anyone remember the
> news out of France?  It seems that they are dropping MSO country-wide
> and opting for LO and FOSS instead.  This is a trend that is happening
> at the local, regional, and national levels of countries world-wide.
> USA, not so much, but there is a government mandate for the use of FOSS
> as an option.

The question then becomes, "Why are they switching?"  The simple fact 
they are switching tells me nothing.  Maybe they don't like the price 
structure.  Maybe they don't like the proprietary file formats.  Maybe, 
as the European courts did address, they don't like being forced to have 
Internet Explorer forced on the user.

And I do remember hearing about the switch in France.  I was surprised 
to find it mentioned on some US news shows.

I doubt there will be a change in what the US government uses 
internally.  When computers began to become truly needed office 
equipment, agencies could use whatever OS and software they wanted.

But when.... (wait for it...)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(wait for it...)  <G>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
interoperability and IT support became issues and almost impossible to 
deal with, Microsoft's systems, for better or for worse, became the 
standard for the US government.  I was there when all of this happened. 
 A huge number of office folks did not like giving up Word Perfect.

I'm sure there are a few non-MS systems around, but they will be 
specialty items/uses.

> I keep hearing form a few people about Kingsoft, but others are warning
> me away from using it, due to some privacy issues.  So, I cannot judge
> the good or bad about that software.

I've heard the same privacy issues, but nothing definitive.  Mostly, the 
concerns seemed to center around the fact it's an Asian company, Chinese 
I think.  But then something from Taiwan is officially Chinese too.

> So, for my home-based office, I use LO and FOSS and not MSO.  The newest
> MSO I have is 2003.  I do not plan on buying any newer one.

I had a chance to get 2007 at the student price.  Installed, but never 
used on a regular basis.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.2.3


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted