Re: [libreoffice-users] 4.0.3

There was an announcement from MS that they are going to go to a faster 
release cycle.  The plan was that a new version of MSO, and other 
software from them, will be released every 3 or 4 months instead of 
every 2 or 3 years.

As for LO being released with "bugs", most software seems to have bug 
fixes every so often.

As for the fast release cycle, we do not want our users to wait months 
and months for the newest version with the bug fixes, improvements of 
included features, and new ones.  We do not have staff to test each LO 
release on every OS and system variation, plus all possible combination 
of document usage.  We release the "early adopters" versions 4.1.0 
through .2 or .3.  But the "conservative" and least likely to have issue 
versions starting with .4 or .5.  This is in the Release Plan 
documentation.  For all users that want the "most stable" and "least 
buggy" version[s] of LO, most of us tend to recommend to our "clients" 
that they start with version .4 or .5 of a line and not an earlier one, 
unless there is a major need for some new and improved feature.

So for the most conservative users, I would go with 3.6.7.  The next 
lever of user, like most of them, I would have then use 4.0.4 or 4.0.5 
when it comes out.  I would not offer most of my users the .0 through .3 
versions of LO for their use in the home or office.  I may try the .0 or 
.1 versions myself, though.

I am working on the 4.1.0 version of the NA-DVD .iso file to be uploaded 
to the DVD download page[s], as soon as I know if or when the portable 
version of it comes out.  Yet, I will not hand these 4.1.0 DVDs out to 
my list of users, home or office ones.  I will be waiting for 4.0.5 for 
my next round of handouts, unless I need some before then.

I started programming in the 1970's, on DEC PDP/11 systems.  Saw the 
introduction of the PCs to the market.  Used the first Mac computer.  I 
earned 2 degrees in mainframe programming, one business and one science, 
then later one degree in the network technology area.  I never worked 
for any "big name" companies like Cisco, but I worked in various 
fields.  I was forced to retire after a debilitating set of injuries and 
my 2nd and 3rd strokes. Been "retired" since the around 2004.

As for the need to "beat" MS, they are slowly loosing ground all by 
themselves with such marketing flops like the Surface RT tablet.  People 
were not buying their newest versions of MSO, so they started the idea 
of renting it instead, telling people it is a better idea.  But, if you 
miss a payment or stop paying all together, you will loose you office 
suite.  If you use their online version, you may loose even more, like 
your online documents.

Most governments and agencies are looking towards open source to fill 
their needs, before they look into buying proprietary software package 
solutions.  Look to all of the press releases on which big company, 
city, or country, is not switching over to open source office suites, 
mostly LibreOffice at this point.  MS is really loosing ground in 
Europe, as far as I have read.  The USA is still not moving towards open 
source as fast as other countries, but this market is something MS does 
not want to loose.  We are just so big and profitable for MS, they will 
do anything to keep the USA under their corporate "thumbs".

But the is movement in the private sector of the market.  Homes and 
small offices cannot afford to keep paying MS's blood money year after 
year.  I stopped at MSO 2003.  I still have to deal with Windows 7, but 
I prefer using Linux for most of my work and desktops.

Sure, LO can have issues from time to time.  But, unlike the "big boys", 
we are open with our issues and will do our best to fix the problems our 
users tells us about.  As I said before, that is why we have a faster 
release cycle so we can offer the bug fixes in a timely manor.  To be 
honest, you do not see this as up-front with MSO.  They do offer fixes 
every so often, but their system involves patching the installed 
packages.  LO is not designed that way and is too "internally 
integrated" to just replace a piece of coding in a small library file.  
So LO needs to have the entire version replaced with a new one to get 
the fixes and improvements to the user.  I have no issues with that.  
Some people just do not want to think about upgrading their packages 
after they are installed.  So we have the "conservative" releases so 
they can avoid the issues in the "early adopters" releases.
.



On 07/27/2013 05:51 AM, Amit Choudhary wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> I have been programming since 1987. I have all my degrees in computer
> science/networking. I have worked for companies like Cisco systems, Juniper
> networks and have turned down offers from companies like Google and
> Microsoft for one reason or other.
>
> This whole software industry is going in the wrong direction. Actually, by
> now we should have been done by all the software (all the necessary
> software developed and installed and used, no bugs, etc.
>
> We need to beat Microsoft because we do not want to pay for Office suite.
>
> The best way of doing this is to release stable versions only and this can
> be done by increasing the QA cycle period.
>
> I do not release buggy software unless it has been approved by management.
> And I have not released any software that's gonna hurt the customer even if
> I have to get into discussions with managers, directors, etc.
>
> This whole idea of releasing software frequently is a scam, because work
> doesn't get done properly in a small time window. No one gets any time for
> innovation and everyone is just interested in the release. And in the end,
> the software dies down because the frequent release does not fix things
> properly and introduces new bugs and over time all these quickfixes kill
> the product.
>
> THERE IS NO DEMAND FROM CUSTOMERS FOR FREQUENT RELEASES. THE DEMAND IS FROM
> PEOPLE WHO ARE SOFTWARE ANALYSTS AND THEY WANT SOMETHING TO DO AND HENCE
> THEY WANT FREQUENT RELEASES. IT IS A BIG SCAM.
>
> I use around 5-6 external softwares and if everyone is releasing something
> every month then it becomes a headache to me.
>
> RELEASING ONLY TWICE A YEAR IS VERY FOOD.
>
> THE BIGGEST RISK OF RELEASING FREQUENTLY IS THAT ORIGINAL PROBLEMS ARE NOT
> SOLVED PROPERLY AND QUICKFIXES MAKE MANAGING THE SOFTWARE COMPLICATED AND
> IN THE END THE DEVELOPERS GIVE UP AND THE PRODUCT IS SHELVED.
>
> AND ALL THIS HAPPENS WITH PAID SOFTWARE TOO.
>
> Amit
>
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi :)
> > I think with Base it's better to stay with older branches.  The 3.6.7
> > might be better.  if the 4.0.3 works for you then stick with that.
> >
> > Sadly there are still not many devs working on Base.  It's not flashy
> > enough!
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: "la10497@iperbole.bologna.it" <la10497@iperbole.bologna.it>
> > > To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> > > Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013, 10:31
> > > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] 4.0.3
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the "3rd digit rule" doesn't work as goog as expected...
> > >     I use report builder in base, 4.0.3.3 version. Download 4.0.4 and
> > > report builder no more works (crash in opening).
> > >
> > >     thanks anyway for developers work, I remember this is a free sw, at
> > the
> > > end....
> > >
> > >     Federico Quadri
> > >
> > >     Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> ha scritto:
> > > > Hi :)
> > > >    That 3rd digit is roughly the equivalent of "Service pack".  So
> > > > usually the higher it is the more stable it is.  Of course even just
> > > > bug-patches and fixes can sometimes introduce unexpected problems
> > > > that might not get caught by QA.
> > > >
> > > >    The best answer, imo, is to keep a very stable version that you
> > > > are happy enough with on all the machines you look after especially
> > > > ones that have limited access or that you can't reach easily.  Then
> > > > on 1 machine find some way of being able to test-drive an occasional
> > > > beta-test versions before it gets released.  Preferably do about 1
> > > > per branch.  The problem is that things you might care about deeply
> > > > might not even be getting used by other people at all.  So it's only
> > > > you that might notice.  So if you didn't test-drive then the problem
> > > > might never be found.  Also it's better to do your testing on a beta
> > > > release rather than a full release because it's during the early
> > > > beta stage that the most devs are the most focussed on the 1 single
> > > > version and trying to solve the most problems quickly.  Also it's
> > > > when the fewest other people are making bug-reports.
> > > >
> > > >    There are various ways you could make sure you have access to 1
> > > > version for use for work that has a dead-line and another version
> > > > that you can just use to try things out and make sure it all works.
> > > >
> > > >    Regards from
> > > >    Tom :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > >     From: Amit Choudhary <contact.amit.choudhary.india@gmail.com>
> > > > >     To: "users@global.libreoffice.org" <Users@global.libreoffice.org>
> > > > >     Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013, 3:35
> > > > >     Subject: [libreoffice-users] 4.0.3
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >     I was using 4.0.2 and then I downloaded 4.0.3 but 4.0.3 is not
> > > > > as stable as
> > > > >     4.0.2. So, now I am downloading 4.0.4.
> > > > >
> > > > >     I am more interested in stable and feature rich (optional)
> > > > > software rather
> > > > >     than frequently released software.
> > > > >
> > > > >     Stablility is very important because a non-stable software /
> > software
> > > > >     having many bugs results in loss of time and frustartion.
> > > > >
> > > > >     Amit
> > > --
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