Re: [libreoffice-users] fyi: Java dependance, and others

Hi :)
I was forgetting the Report Builder wizard but i thought it was best to avoid using that anyway?  

Your division of Back-end into 2 parts; data and server made a lot of sense.  Using the word 
"Client" instead of "Front-end" also makes sense and is probably more familiar to a lot of people 
now anyway as we hear the terms "email client" rather than "email front-end" and such.  

Are you offering to review the Base Guide that is in ODFAuthors?  or could you email Dan to see 
what he suggests?  There might be some good reason why he has gone a more generic route with the 
guide and perhaps is saving up the divisions for another chapter or a guide aimed at a different 
level of users.  
Regards from
Tom :)  





> ________________________________
> From: Girvin R. Herr <girvin.herr@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> 
> Cc: "Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org" <Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org> 
> Sent: Friday, 8 February 2013, 19:09
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] fyi: Java dependance, and others
>
> The last I heard, admittedly many years ago for Access 1.x, MS Access uses the JET database 
> server, which is bundled with Access much like Base uses HSQLDB by default.  However, you are 
> correct in that MS makes it difficult to connect the Access front-end to an external database 
> server, but that is their business model.
>
> It is a bit for users to grasp.  Especially when the Base documentation talks of everything as a 
> "database" when there are several separate elements involved.  The term database, in my opinion, 
> refers to the disk files containing the data.  Those files are accessed by the database 
> "_Server_", sometimes called the "Back-End".  Base is one of many "_Client_"s, sometimes called 
> the "_Front End_", that communicate with the server to access data and format it in human-readable 
> form.  IMHO, some such explanation should be in the first paragraphs (introduction) of the Base 
> manual, but it is not in the 11/30/11 version I read lately.  There is an introduction, but it is 
> not very enlightening for first-time users with little or no database system experience.  
> Continuing to refer to these element names throughout the manual, where applicable, would do much 
> to educate the users instead of using the generic, all-encompassing term "database".  A block
 diagram may also be of benefit:
>    Database File(s) <-> Server [<-> Driver] <-> Client <-> user
>
> Where:
> Database File(s) are the actual data files on the disk.
> Server is one of MySQL, HSQLDB, POSTGRESQL, JASPER, etc.
> "Driver" is an optional interface between the server and client and in the case of MySQL would be 
> "mysql-connector-java" for example.
> "Client" is the front-end, or interface between the user and the server.  In this case, Base.
>
> You may be forgetting that the Base Oracle Report Builder is known to be Java-based, which is a 
> big chunk of Base in my opinion.  Also from the manual, page 5, under "What Is Base?" - "HSQLDB is 
> written in Java."
>
> Girvin Herr
>
>
>
> Tom Davies wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > Some interesting articles and comments on 4.0.0.  Not all completely precisely accurate and 
> > quite a lot of the comments are clearly either deliberate FUD or hopelessly confused people that 
> > need help.  There are some gems in there though and i liked this one in ArsTechnica
> >
> > "
> >
> > DannyB | Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
> >
> > about 10 hours ago  
> > "scuttle22 wrote: So now Libre Office depends on Java AND Python."
> >
> > > From a Slashdot post that I saw:
> > http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?si ... d=42822061
> >
> > To be precise, as computed by sloccount, libreoffice-4.0.0.3.tar.xz contains:
> >
> > cpp: 3990644 (87.04%)
> > java: 400958 (8.75%)
> > ansic: 91036 (1.99%)
> > perl: 42456 (0.93%)
> > python: 17392 (0.38%)
> > sh: 17256 (0.38%)
> > yacc: 8228 (0.18%)
> > cs: 6648 (0.15%)
> > asm: 3269 (0.07%)
> > objc: 2602 (0.06%)
> > lex: 2030 (0.04%)
> > awk: 907 (0.02%)
> > pascal: 800 (0.02%)
> > csh: 235 (0.01%)
> > lisp: 115 (0.00%)
> > php: 104 (0.00%)
> > sed: 7 (0.00%)
> >
> > However, as Desler said, the Java bits are actually optional.
> > "
> >
> > It seems that a common misunderstanding is that people often seem to think Base is completely 
> > dependant on Java and that Base is used by everyone.  Neither is really true.  
> > Base seems best when connecting to an external back-end and it's much easier to do that with 
> > Base than with Access.  Base really pushes people into using an external source of data.  If you 
> > choose a java-based back-end then Base will effectively be using java.  If you choose a non-java 
> > back-end then it wont [shrugs].  I guess that is really difficult for people to grasp.  
> > I guess the misunderstanding arises because Access uses an internal back-end for it's data so 
> > people try to force Base to use it's own back-end too instead of doing something sensible.  To 
> > be fair i am doing exactly that too.  Bases internal back-end uses java.  
> > Hmmm, i can see myself running into a problem now that i have uninstalled java from all works 
> > machines!  Time for me to be a bit more sensible and work at migrating the data tables to a 
> > decent external back-end.  (There are a couple of old posts that should be able to help me so no 
> > worries there)  
> > So, the main thing i found interesting was the breakdown of different percentages of languages 
> > used in LibreOffice.  My guess is that non C++ is gradually being replaced by C++ but there's 
> > still 12.94% left with most of that being java which is mostly in easily avoidable wizards and 
> > Extensions.
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)  
> >   
>
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