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That unplugging does not work when you deal with a laptop though.

The "sudo" command only works with a Linux install, or live media. That is why I liked the "rescue disk". You did not need to deal with commands. All you had to do was boot it up and press a button or three. The rest was automatic.

as for the thread title. . . .
MS was really expecting big income from their Win8 OS and their Win8 tablet. There seems not to be much less "upgrade" sales that they predicted. There tablet failed to catch any real market share. MSO-2013 is coming out soon, but the info I have read stated that it was optimized to work with Win8 and its "touch" abilities. How it will work with XP, Vista, Win7, or even Win8 with non-touch displays will be the key. Also their XML .docx file format [and the others] is not compatible to the 2007 or 2010 XML abilities so a .docx file created with 2013 has a very good chance not to be readable within 2007 or 2010. They do this deliberately to "force" users to upgrade to their new office product[s]. This was never a good idea in a good economy, but even worse in todays economic conditions where businesses cannot afford the new pricing scheme that MSO uses now.

I have read reports showing that MS profits are less and less each quarter [on average]. I have not read how much their failed tablet has cost them though. Still, their profits are greater than most business out there. The desktop/laptop market is slowing as the tablet market is taking more of its market share, but the tablet sales are slowing as well. It is the economic conditions, and users for personal and business systems do not have the capital to buy as much tech as they once did.

As long as there is a product like LibreOffice that is developing better and better "filters" to read/write MSO formats, I will not be buying any MSO products for the foreseeable future. If MS creates a more sensible Windows 9 OS, I may think about upgrading my Win7 laptop to it one day, but not Win8.

As long as I can use Ubuntu, or other Linux OS, for my needs, I will prefer to use it. I will have one Windows OS to deal with the required Windows hardware and software - like defragging external drives. My TV and blu-ray devices do not support non-Windows disk formats so I will still need those large externals to be NTFS and defragged by Windows from time to time. Then there are the Windows-only software packages/utilities that deal with "special features" of my multi-function printers, like their printing of a printable CD/DVD media's label; or a Windows-only USB video capture device.

On 01/21/2013 08:37 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
Yes, installing a new Windows alongside an existing one still does over-write the Mbr and hides all previous versions of Windows as well as any other OSes you have. It doesn't matter if the newer version is on a different physical drive or on an external drive or anything else.

One trick is to physically unplug the drive with the Mbr you want to save and then install the newer Windows on it's own drive. it will overwrite the Mbr on it's drive but will leave the unplugged drive's Mbr alone. Then when you plug in the old drive then hopefully you can set the bios to boot the old drive first. Of course this means the old drive is unaware of the new install so you'll need to run something like
sudo update-grub
from you old Gnu&Linux distro.

Regards form
Tom :)

    *From:* webmaster-Kracked_P_P <>
    *To:* LibreO - Users Global <>
    *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 January 2013, 0:39
    *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] is MSFT running scared ...

    Maybe you should give the URL for the Linux-based boot repair disk
    [.iso file download].  I do not remember it it.

    I have two different disk type/names.

    "boot-repair-disk.iso" - 355 MB

    "ubuntu-secure-remix-12.10-32-bit.iso" - 787 MB
    "ubuntu-secure-remix-12.10-64-bit.iso" - 797.1 MB

    I think I used the "boot-repair-disk" version since all you had to
    do was choose your OS version/type you are using.  I think I
    remember correctly that there was only 4 buttons to choose from
    once the disk/OS booted up.

    My Dell laptop had 32-bit Vista even though 64-bit Vista was out
    and working.  Too cheap maybe to include it, since it cost us more
    for the 64-bit version back then. I just upgraded that dual boot
    laptop 64-bit Win7 professional from 32-bit Vista and 64-bit
    Ubuntu 12.10 from 12.04 version.  Win7/pro killed the dual booting
    till I ran the "repair disk".  I tend to use the Ubuntu boot for
    the testing of the newest version of Ubuntu [10.04 to 10.10 to
    11.04 to 11.10 to 12.04 to 12.10] before I upgrade it on my
    "production desktop".  I upgraded the Vista to Win7/pro [64-bit]
    so I can have a working 64-bit Windows OS on one of my systems
    without going to Win8, since I do not have any touch screens
    except on my Android 4.0 tablet.

    Actually, I wonder if Win7 or Win8 would break the dual [or
    triple] booting a laptop if both boot partitions were running a
    Windows OS before one was upgraded from XP or Vista to Win7 or
    Win8?  Would Windows break the multi-boot if there would be two+
    Windows OSs on the same system but in different boot partitions?

    Windows 2000 was for business based on Win NT, while Win
    Millennium was for the home user based on Win98. Millennium was
    worse than Vista ever was and most users I dealt with switched to
    Win 2000 till XP [home or professional]  came out.

    Win8 look and feel is a reworking of their failed smart phone OS.
    They decided that they still liked it and moved it to the Win8
    tablet OS.  BUT, someone had the bad idea of wanting all of "your"
    Windows based systems to look and "feel" the same.  I do not want
    my "production desktop" to have the "look and feel" of my tablet.
    I hated Unity's look and feel when it came out in the Spring of
    2011.  Win8 seemed to look and feel the same.  I read that a large
    number of Ubuntu user switched to Mint Linux because of Unity.  If
    MS would have looked at the "fallout" when Ubuntu went to Unity,
    maybe they would have thought twice about using a tablet looking
    OS desktop display for their desktop/laptop OSs.  I kept Ubuntu,
    but switched to MATE for the desktop environment.

    For my opinion what business users in my area will do with new
    Win8 systems; not buy them if they can get new Win7 systems or
    downgrade the new Win8 systems to Win7. Every business user I have
    talked to locally hates the look of Win8 and do not want to have
    to pay for the training to get their users to be able to use it.
    XP/Vista to Win7 was a little change, but XP/Vista/Win7 to Win8
    was a real big change that needs a lot of training.  TV ads for
    retail computer stores use to offer free Win8 training so people
    could learn how to deal with the big changes.  Well, those TV ads
    are all gone, along with most of the Win8 ads [number of ads per
    day/week] are gone now.  Almost all of the MS's tablet are gone
    now, but there are some major computer companies [like HP] ads
    about tablet to laptop convertibles though replacing MS's "tablet
    with a keyboard" ads..

    On 01/21/2013 04:55 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
    > Hi :)
    > There is always 'unexpectedly low' take-up of Windows newest OS
    when it first gets released. Historically corporate users have
    learned to leave it until after at least the first Service Pack
    gets released.  One time MS tried to boost sales by claiming that
    Service Pack 1 was included in the initial release.
    > Usually there is a requirement to upgrade quite a bit of
    hardware in order to run the newer version of Windows and that
    creates reluctance until people have had time to save-up or plan
    for rolling out new hardware for the new OS.
    > Installing Windows always installs their boot-loader (used to be
    "ntldr") which overwrites the MBR of the hard-drive and then
    ignores any other OSes on the machine so that you can only boot
    into Windows.  To reinstate your MBR just boot into a LIveCd or
    LiveUsb or some other way of booting into a Gnu&Linux and just
    repair or reinstall just the boot-loader of your distro. You don't
    need a special recovery or repair disk although those sorts of
    things are just one way to boot into a Gnu&Linux. You also don't
    need to reinstall the entire distro.  It's just a case of
    repairing your boot-loader.  One of the final steps of the repair
    involves 'updating' your boot-loader and if that is one on a
    unix-based platform (such as Gnu&Linux, Bsd or whatever) then it
picks up the new version of Windows that your just installed. Fixing the Mbr is really easy once you have done it once.
    > Typically Windows seem to have 1 bad version followed by 1 good
    one and then the next is bad.  Vista was apparently so bad that
    many people said they "upgraded" from Vista back to Xp.  Even
    though that was a backwards step many considered it an upgrade.
    Win7 was quite good.  Before Xp was Millenium which was generally
    considered so appalling that people are more likely to have heard
    of Win98.  So, people might be expecting Win8 to be another dead OS.
    > However there is also often quite strong resistance to new
    things.  Especially to new versions of Windows. people have just
    about become familiar with the older one and don't like the newer
    ways of doing things and the fact that it's difficult to find
    things or work out how to deal with issues that they had just
    learned how to solve on the previous.  With Gnu&Linux it doesn't
    matter what changes happen to the DE you can always modify it or
    even just install the old one on your new OS.
    > Regards from
    > Tom :)
    >    *From:* webmaster-Kracked_P_P <
    >    *To:*
    >    *Sent:* Monday, 21 January 2013, 16:34
    >    *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] is MSFT running scared ...
    >    On 01/21/2013 10:41 AM, anne-ology wrote:
    >    >        ... maybe not, but this makes me wonder why they were
    >    promoting this
    >    > new OS and now are plugging a how-to re. it  ;-)
    >    >
    >    >
    >    >
    >    >        As for me, I'm very thankful there's LO, and with such a
    >    great
    >    > help-list of fellow users  :-)
    >    >
    >    The articles I have read seem to tell Win7 users to forget to
    >    upgrade to Win8 if you do not have a touch screen.
    >    MS's tablet has had low sales figures, much lower than
    expected or
    >    the hype would let you believe.
    >    So, giving tech people a free e-book about Win8 is a way for them
    >    to promote that OS.
    >    I have heard from a few business users where they took their Win8
    >    upgrade and "degrade" it back to XP or Win7. So maybe MS needs to
    >    convince the business users to buy the Win8 upgrade or even new
    >    Win8 systems, instead of upgrading to, and/or buying, systems
    >    with, Win7.
    >    I just upgraded 32-bit Vista to 64-bit Win7/pro instead of the
    >    cheaper priced Win8 deal.  I have it on a laptop that is a dual
    >    boot for 64-bit Win7/pro and 64-bit Ubuntu 12.10 [with MATE
    >    desktop environment].  That upgrade "killed" the dual booting
    so I
    >    need to use the repair disk.  The way I have read seems to be
    >    Win8 would do something with that laptop where it would not be
    >    able to dual even after the boot fixing disk. I use the
    laptop for
    >    my main Windows laptop and the Ubuntu boot is where I test
    out the
    >    new version[s] of the OS before I install it onto my main
    >    "production" desktop. I hate the Unity desktop for Ubuntu, so why
    >    would I buy Win8 with the same type of desktop "tile" look
    and feel.

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