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On 02/12/2012 11:08 AM, Barry Smith wrote:
drew wrote:
On Sat, 2012-02-11 at 07:10 -0800, Pedro wrote:
drewjensen wrote
PDF is just another throw back to printing on dead trees in this regard,
where the creator of the file sets the size of the layout when the file
is generated.

This has additional implications, such as page counts and the use of
page numbers in a table of contents and index,

That is a little unfair on PDF! PDF is excellent for archiving documents as
IF they were printed. It saves on trees and it saves on disk space (compared
to digitized images of documents).
Hi Pedro,

1st - if we continue this, and I would not mind at all, how about we
kick it over to the discuss list?

But for the moment.

So we are in agreement - PDF does a great job of replicating the printed

The fixed page size and numbering is extremely important when you are
referring to some portion of a document. It doesn't make sense to say, "in
the third paragraph of page 20" and then because the text was re-flowed to
fit in a 3" screen that paragraph is in page 100...
Well, stop thinking that way (hey didn't I adomish against such
statement in a recent email...ah humans we are all schytzoid)...

Instead of saying "see the scratch mark on tablet 4", use a hyperlink.
It will be just as valid when the pages flow differently on different

Another big advantage of PDF (when loaded in a PC, Win or Linux, and
probably on a Mac) is that you can embed the fonts so you know your page
will look *exactly* like you designed it. Apparently this does not work in a
Kindle, so it is expected that they will look different because fonts are
being replaced (as in an epub)
Yup - embedded fonts = hard coding.

I'm not saying there is no place for PDF and it's like just that there
are other ways to view the world, the new world.

// drew

Just my 2 cents ;)

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Hi, Group.

I read the whole thread, and came back to this note as a jump-in point.

My opinion is epub is fine for portable devices, and that PDF does it's
best to duplicate the printed page.
When the PDF format was originally developed in 1993 many would actually print the document often for distribution or archival record. In some cases, documents are still printed for archival hard-copy records/use. E-book formats are designed for viewing the document on an e-book device. Thus the differences in how they behave.

My pet peeve (to consider) is that most PDF ebooks that I have used (and
couldn't use) were either jpg pages (I had to tweak cups-PDF myself) or
just not built to be "Searchable".  When I open an e-book for a
programming book or a reference book (no matter the format), I'm not
looking to read it from cover to cover.  I'm looking to find an answer
to a problem.  I know the keywords that I'm looking for, and I want to
search. I don't want to roll through a TOC, I don't want to flip back to
an index... I want to !search!.

Before my Ubuntu box crashed, I had found a procedure using two Linux
tools (one was called "cuniform" I believe).  One tool would OCR the
scanned graphic pages (for some reason it worked only with 150cpi/dpi
scans) and create an XML list of words, and where they were on the page
and on what page.  The next step was h2-something which would merge the
PDF and the XML list and create a "searchable" PDF.

Please, continue with the war and peace treaties.  I have included my
one cent (used to be two cents, until the taxes went up... again).

Jay Lozier

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