RE: [libreoffice-users] OASIS - and its Documents

Here is some context.

First, with regard to formulas and the rules for formulas in spreadsheets, you need to look at 
OpenFormula, which is Part 2 and OpenDocument-v1.2-cs01-part2.pdf is the format I recommend.  (It's 
faster and you can set Acrobat Reader to show forward and back buttons that work just like in a 
browser when you chase cross-references in the document.)

 - You can find it in the "Technical Work Produced by this Committee" list on the ODF TC home page, 
<http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office>.

 - You can go to this folder and fish out what you want, see the sizes before you download, etc: < 
http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/cs01/>.

CAUTION: Don't try to use the HTML documents of Part 1 or Part 2.  They are single pages for 
documents of hundreds of pages in OpenDocument Text or PDF form.

The OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) is a specification produced 
by the OASIS Consortium.  We tend to refer to the format as ODF, and there are three versions at 
the moment: ODF 1.0, ODF 1.1, and the ODF 1.2 Committee Specification 01.  Also, there is an ISO 
Standard, IS 26300:2006, that is very close to ODF 1.0.  An amendment is currently in progress to 
align the ISO standard with ODF 1.1.  When ODF 1.2 becomes an official OASIS Standard (more than a 
Committee Specification) later this year, ODF 1.2 will also be taken to ISO in some manner.

OpenOffice.org supports ODF as its native document format.  That's the connection.  Currently, 
LibreOffice will save documents as ODF 1.0/1.1, ODF 1.2, or ODF 1.2 extended.  I don't know what 
conformance to ODF 1.2 is claimed for LibreOffice 3.3 and 3.4, but if LibreOffice Calc .ods files 
are ODF 1.2, then the OpenFormula specification applies.

BRASS TACKS

This specification states that comparisons between values of different types (e.g., text and 
number) have implementation-defined results, where those results must be one of true, false, or an 
error value.  

In section 6.4.9,

" These functions return one of True, False, or an Error if Left and Right have different types, 
but it is implementation-defined which of these results will be returned when the types differ."

So the only question is, what is LibreOffice's definition and, if folks don't like it, what do you 
want done about it?  And how do you propose for interoperability issues to be handled with regard 
to what other implementations may have already established as their implementation-defined behavior?

(You can argue with the ODF 1.2 specification, but that won't provide any immediate relief.  Work 
on 1.3 is in progress, but that specification is probably two years away.)

HAVING IT BE DIFFERENT

If I were writing a proposal to tighten this for ODF 1.3, I would say that when the types are 
different, an error value shall be produced.  I would argue that to be the only safe thing to do if 
a specific provision is made, since this is the only way to prevent spreadsheets written with a 
different expectation from silently producing possibly-unnoticed different results for some users 
in the future.  Of course LibreOffice could just do that, but I am sure there are important 
trade-offs to consider.

I am not writing such a proposal, but if there is strong sentiment for something like this, I would 
be happy to introduce it.  If you want something else, you will have to find someone else to submit 
it to the ODF TC.  (To submit your own request for a change, use this: < 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/comments/index.php?wg_abbrev=office>.)

 - Dennis




-----Original Message-----
From: John B [mailto:johnb@email2.me] 
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 14:10
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] OASIS - and its Documents

Dear Regina

You are a cruel person;-) , I downloaded the documents from OASIS you 
suggested, to find over 1,500 pages.

The first 150 pages is just the Index, (it needs an index to the Index)  
You must think I am "Sheldon Cooper".

Do you think you could reduce it to say 3 paragraphs, with pop ups and 
an area for me to colour in!.

It needs a better Outline at the beginning, to understand the purpose 
and the overall rationale for a 1st time reader.

I notice that it is all >:- Copyright © OASIS Open 2002 - 2011 <  How 
does that effect "The Document Foundation"? - where is the DF.

I am not sure how anyone (Excluding Sheldon Cooper! ) could remember the 
entire contents to formulate whether its a new bug, an old bug or from, 
"We like it this way" to "There is nobody who can change it".

regards

John B

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi John,

John B schrieb:
[..]
> ** Who is / are OASIS?

OASIS is the organization, which prepared the ODF1.0 specification, 
which then became ISO standard. Now OASIS works on ODF1.2. This is 
currently in puplic review. For details and download links see
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/201106/msg00061.html

<snip>

We will do our best to help you getting familiar with LibreOffice.

Kind regards
Regina



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