Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

Hi :)

As people keep pointing out, Base is a front-end that can be used for a wide variety of back-ends 
(Dbs as you call them).  There is a default Db/back-end for Base called HqSql but it's not great at 
the moment.  A few people have suggested swapping out the default one for one of the others that 
Base can already use, perhaps SqlLite, or the massive MySql / MariaDb.  (MariaDb is an excellent 
fork of MySql just as LO is an excellent fork of OOo).  

If you look at how many patches are submitted for Base then you will notice 2 things
1.  There are only 1 or 2 people working on the code
2.  The rate of new bug-reports is growing much faster than patches are being released
3.  There are a dismayingly large number of bug-reports
I have not looked myself but it's what i hear from other people that have looked.  

A lot of brainstorming needs to happen and this list is not really the best place for it because a 
lot of the issues have nothing to do with marketing.  Another problem with trying to have this 
discussion on this list is that it excludes various people that are interested in Base and might 
have good ideas to put forwards.  We need to start cross-posting this thread onto various other 
lists such as Documentation, Devs, perhaps UI or Design, Users and perhaps others.  

Regards from
Tom :)




--- On Wed, 14/9/11, Charles-H. Schulz <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

From: Charles-H. Schulz <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new 
mailing list?)
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 14:05

Hello everyone,

I'd like to contribute to the discussion in making two kinds of
comments. Please bear on with me.

I would like to make the first kind of comments in order to correct
certain points that were made, because they would lead to factual
mistakes or misunderstandings... A couple of points in particular:
You cannot really integrate a QT app in LibreOffice, simply because the
QT stack and the LibreOffice one are completely different. Packaging the
two would probably not even make any sense. So we can't pick something
we like and "integrate" it. (BTW: we tried that in the past with
Thunderbird and Gecko. It was a BIG FAIL). Besides, we need to think in
terms of front end and back-end as well here.

The second point is about recruitment of developers. I hope that I'm not
making myself a mistake in assuming that what is being understood is to
actually hire developers... perhaps what is meant is attracting
developers? In any case, we cannot mandate developers to work on
something like we would do in a company. It's a big difference between a
business and a FOSS community and project. Developers join by
themselves, provided the information is there.

That was for the first kind of comments; now, I'd like to open the
discussion a bit more.

I must admit I am myself very, very unclear on what we are trying to
achieve with Base. And it's not just now, it's always been the case (for
me, at least). Base was added to Openoffice.org as a new module and the
whole experience was suboptimal. It did obviously feel a gap in the
feature set, but it seems we've never really been able to compete with
MS Access, and somehow we tried to achieve something different in the
mean time. The result now is not that we have developers not doing
anything on Base (in fact, we do). The result is that there are less
resources on this because developers are simply less interested in
acting on it, and there's nothing we can force them to do (or not do).

Hence, one thing that might help -and this is very much a call for
brainstorm, with the hope that we collect expectations about Base- is to
gather feedback from users, see what we can understand from their use,
or non-use of Base, and not being afraid to ask some real questions.

As an example: should Base be scrapped off? Should we use it as a front
end to another DB? should we try to compete with Access? Should it be
geared towards a more complete usage (read: integrated as a front end to
enterprise DB); is it enough to squash the reported bugs on Base? etc.

After that survey we can a) analyze the results b) take action in two
forms: suggestions to the broader community (devs included) or writing a
set of RFEs (Request For Enhancement). RFEs are something developers can
work with. You may call them hacks, but  the point is this; you describe
in technical and functional terms, step by step, what a feature should
be. Not just "It should be able to compete with Access" or "it should be
red". But rather: "description of feature, rationale, behaviour, usage
scenario, etc.".

Hope this helps, and sorry for the long email.

best,
Charles.


Le 14/09/2011 14:41, Tom Davies a écrit :
> Hi  :)
>
> Yes, indeed.  And for that we need documentation on Base.  Devs are likely to need documentation 
> in order to understand how it should be working in order to do serious work on it but the 
> documentation can't be written until devs start clearing the bugs!  It's a "Chicken & egg" 
> problem.  
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> --- On Wed, 14/9/11, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions <webmaster@krackedpress.com> wrote:
>
> From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions <webmaster@krackedpress.com>
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a 
> new mailing list?)
> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 2:39
>
> On 09/13/2011 04:50 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
> > Hi David, all,
> >
> > David Nelson wrote (13-09-11 09:05)
> >
> > > As a general thing in the LibreOffice project, I think we need to
> > > think seriously about a determined recruitment drive, for Base and for
> > > various other areas of the project. Just waiting for people to
> > > volunteer does not seem to be enough to cater to our needs for
> > > contributors.
> > >
> > > Marketing guys, can you give this consideration?
> >
> > Looks a good idea to me.
> >
> > The goal is to make it attractive for developers, isn't it?
> > Of course those people are not attracted by a just mail base list for their own. They can be 
> > attracted when the work is considered cool, technology wise interesting, some area they user for 
> > themselves, maybe important. At least, that is my first thought.
> > So we should think about bringing that message across.
> > Correct?
> >
> > Cheers,
> If we had more documentation for and people who really knows Base, it would be easier to "sell" 
> LO to some businesses.  I know a user that I had to add Office 2003 to his system since that was 
> a deal breaker.  He has all of the books and modeling work in data base formats and cannot "live" 
> without Access.  He created those DBs with MSO 97 and did not upgrade to MSO 2003 until he 
> switched computers and could not find the install CD for '97.  So unless LO can easily use Access 
> files and reports and forms he created over the years, he will not go to LO, even thought he 
> likes the idea behind LO and FOSS.
>
> So we really need to get more people to learn Base and ways for other to easily learn how to use 
> it.
>
> Any ideas that helps that goal is greatly needed for my group of business users that need 
> databases in their small businesses.  That is the onlly real thing stopping them from switching 
> over completely.
>
>
>
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