Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-12-03

Sorry for sending these this late :-(

* Present: Galina, Heiko, Jay, Mattias, Kendy, Steve, Stuart
 
* Completed Action Items:
    + Kendy: Push access to the git for Jay.
    + Kendy: Find where border icons are defined, and tell Jay (Kendy)
      [Jay found out himself during the meeting,
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86472]
    + Kendy: Adjust alignment and spacing in line spacing drop down
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83076#c11
      Looks good. Can we possibly reduce the line spacing and value
      fields by 15px from the right (Jay)
    + Kendy: Enable the (collapsed) sidebar in Calc for 4.4.
    + Stuart: Close https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80670
      as wontfix.
    + ...
 
* Pending Action Items:
 
    + Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to
      sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog)
      https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13085/ - proof of concept,
      thanks to the hackfest :-)
    + Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like
      View -> Sidebar toggle
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85937
    + Kendy: Do / find someone / easy-hack-ize automatic opening of the
      Track changes toolbar when there are tracked changes
    + Ahmed: Push the new Sifr icons he's done recently
    + Kendy: Check how hard it is to make sidebar honor the icon size
      setting
    + Kendy: Easy Hack-ize fixing of uno commands that need to be
      duplicated in Draw and Impress
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84258#c2
    + Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the
      various things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
        + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/GenialIdeas
          [styles previews in the sidebar etc.]
        + Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
          https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493
          [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
    + Kendy: Talk to Milos wrt. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48622
    + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for the Hi-contrast Sifr
    + Alex: Gnome 2.20 style 'a' icons & Gnome 3 style text line icons
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:
 
    + Breeze icons are in master for most of writer and calc toolbar
      buttons (Jay)
      
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4412114/5253763/c77994ca-79c3-11e4-9a66-45dddaad5a03.png
      Writer's table toolbar was reorganized for the better (Jay)
    + Lighter Writer's workspace (Kendy)
    + Smaller font in the rulers (Kendy)
    + Ruller hidden by default in Writer (Kendy)
    + ...
 
* Last week's discussions that need a resolution:
 
    + Removal of all direct formatting from all modules or have them in
      a submenu (Jay)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86606
        + 3 out of 5 removed in Writer
        + suggested removal from the other apps too
        + known that font selection was broken anyway
        + the context menu takes too much space (Jay)
            + and few people use that anyway (Jay)
        + how it goes together with the (potentially) reduced toolbar (Heiko)
            + from what I see in the bug, these would be in the toolbar
              still (Kendy)
        + competitive analysis: MSO has a special bar for this, but
          that's given by the ribbon - you can be switched to some
          other bar (Jay)
            + annoying in the MSO, actually (Mattias)
        + could be useful in the full-screen mode (Jay)
            + but seems to be the only case (Jay)
AI      + for 4.4: change the name "Style" to a better descriptive name (Jay)
        + for 4.5: go ahead with the removal, and if we see too many
          complains in 4.4, let's introduce the "Direct Formatting"
          submenu
 
* Icon Updates / Issues
 
    + Industrial removed in master again (Kendy)
        + falling back to that during creation of Tango (and only then)
 
    + Some changes made to 4.4 when it was master were skipped when 4.5
      became master (Jay)
        + 4.5 was said to have been branched on the 20th of November, so
          steve's bug should have happened
          https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86738
AI      + check what's going on (Kendy)
    + Removing crystal from master (Jay)
        + With breeze being worked on, we dont need 3 kde themes
        + Let's do that (Kendy)
AI          + not turned on by default in configure (Kendy)
    + Sifr script to generate the icons automatically (Kendy)
        + any updates?
 
    + Breeze (Jay)
        + https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=123517
        + Wiki with list of icons to design (Riddell)
          https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/LibreOffice_Breeze
        + should we consider putting breeze into 4.4 (Jay)
        + upscaling problem
            + did a svg -> png conversion
            + small icons? 
            + 16x16 too small (Mattias)
                + problems with the thin lines (Jay)
            + tango - what is the original size there? (Steve)
                + various (Jay)
        + hi-dpi
            + you need to double the line only, not an issue (Jay, Kendy)
 
* Integrating the templates website into the start center (Jay)
 
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85420
    + way too big a task, worth moving to the GSoC tasks for the next
      year (Kendy)
    + how about start with just the link, as most people seem to think
      the full integration isnt needed (Jay)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=108377
AI      + try to do it still for 4.4 - not too probable (Kendy)
 
* No templates - should have some, though (Kendy)
 
    + run a competition (Jay)
        + great idea! (Kendy)
    + needs a bit of description how to do the template (Kendy)
AI      + create a blog post (Jay)
    + we have already a large set of templates on the templates
      repository (Stuart)
        + yes, makes sense (Kendy)
        + it is necessary to check the license too, though (Kendy)
    + let's have some good looking templates (Mattias)
        + book, university thesis, reports, scientific article, office
          document, probably both modern an classic look of every one... (Mattias, Heiko)
        + expose / show some of the functionality - bibiliography... (Stuart)
    + fonts - the templates should use what is in the installation (Kendy)
 
* Extensions repository
 
    + templates / extensions repository - no way to see which of these
      are maintained, and which are dead (Steve)
        + some feedback system? (Steve)
        + not that big issue with templates (Kendy)
            + but with extensions, yes (Kendy)
    + problems with retaining the functionality from release to release (Stuart)
    + for useful stuff, better to have that as the core functionality (Kendy)
    + template - much closer to Design itself (Stuart)
        + if they look good, include (Jay)
 
* Simple Color Themes (Jay)
 
    + Firefox themes arent that useful, but if we could simply have a
      drop down with a set of preset background colors to theme LO, that
      would be great, especially when we have symbolic icon themes like
      sifr and breeze that look best on a white/light backgrounds.
    + Tools -> Options... -> Appearance ? (Kendy)
        + this is document related only (Jay)
    + problem with recovery? (Stuart)
        + if we allow too much customization...
        + probably needs some coding anyway, so we can make sure to 
    + which users are you targetting? (Mattias)
        + those who like to tweak the view (Jay)
        + eg. with the Sifr icons, the default UI does not work that
          well with them (Jay)
    + likes the idea (Stuart)
    + would fit the Tools -> Options... -> Personalization (Kendy)
        + but needs some work (Kendy)
        + happy to mentor somebody interested in this (Kendy)
 
    + Proper theming system (Jay)
        + Theme should contain details covering 3 things
           + Title bar background color/gradient or image
           + Toolbars background color or image
               + Whether bottom toolbars should have the same image or
                 a reversed one
               + Per toolbar row image
           + Icon theme (whether it should change the icon theme)
 
* Single toolbar mode (Jay)
 
    + Simple toolbar inspired by Google Docs http://i.imgur.com/Hfn5bw1.png
        + idea is to provide simple sub-sets of features in toolbar
        + +1 +1 +1 :)  PROVIDED there is a simple on/off for that
          presentation, and not default (Cor)
    + a question of vision (Heiko)
        + is LibreOffice more a tool for experts who want everything, or
          new users with limited needs (Heiko)
    + overall an interesting idea, easy to implement from the technical
      point of view (Kendy)
        + let's think through that a bit until the next meeting
    + Redmine thread started about it - 
https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/529?r=544
    + came up with 3 different types
        + single toolbar using small icons
        + sidebar oriented single toolbar has also been created
          
https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/attachments/download/439/Single%20Toolbar%20-%20Sidebar%20Mode.png
        + single toolbar for those prefering large icons
          
https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/attachments/download/440/Single%20Toolbar%20-%20Large%20Icons.png
    + Posted on reddit
      
http://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/2o1fod/libreoffice_design_team_discussing_single_toolbar/
    + got positive feedback (Jay)
 
    + maybe would be even good as a default for the full-screen mode? (Kendy)
 
    + theme that would allow pre-configuration of toolbars, that would
      be nice (Heiko)
 
    + will have a look what needs to be done from the technical point of
      view (Kendy)
  
* Update toolbar customization dialog (Heiko)
 
    + mockup - http://i.imgur.com/lFNDmva.png (old) http://pastebin.com/dtxvGJJQ (new xml)
    + MS Word Style (dual pane approach) - http://i.imgur.com/4asjX5w.png
    + IBM Symphony (has a preview bar) - http://i.imgur.com/nUZGiUP.png
    + ideal is to create mock-ups directly in Glade (Kendy)
    + bug report to update the keyboard shortcut tab
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68066
 
    + and could be saved as a pre-set (Heiko)
 
    + would be a nice GSoC (Kendy)
        + around May 2015

* Hidden ruler in Writer (Kendy)
 
    + discussed already 2 years ago
        + http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-ux-advise/2012-November/001487.html
        + [and other messages there]
    + pushback at that time, let's try again ;-)
    + benefit of the ruler: indentation + tabstops (Jay)
    + useful with the tables too (Stuart)
    + competitive analysis: off by default in MSO and iWorks too
    + would be good to have a shortcut for that (Mattias)
        + like the idea (Kendy)
        + will find one (Mattias)
            + Ctrl+Shift+r would be ideal, the same as in Gimp; but it
              is already taken
AI          + Writer + Impres + Draw - let's do it there (Mattias)
 
* Function list appearing twice in sidebar area (Jay)
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=108930
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85897
    + Navigator has the same problem (Kendy)
AI      + will check with Samuel if he can have a look (Kendy)
* Impress survey (Jay, Heiko)
 
    + Proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HlcEpH_87y5rRtXt7c-ukWo9Tw64gtcNDSO8dguMhPs
    + survey closed 2014-Dec-03 (Heiko, Jay)
    + evaluation + analysis starts
        + will go through that with Jay (Heiko)
    + improvements in Impress that people want (Jay)
        + need good templates - many people want that
 
* Don't hide Calc formula toolbar but disable it (Heiko)

    + 
http://user-prompt.com/results-of-survey-about-libreoffice-calcs-toolbar-configuration/#comment-4409
 
    + Comment to the blog post: "I have one comment about the behavior
      of the formula bar: it is hidden when activating a chart or any
      object.  That moves all the content of the spreasheet upwards.
      The movement of everithing is a little anoying. In my opinion, the
      formula bar should remain there, at least deactivated."
 
      Moreover, in MS Excel it isn't hiden when editing a chart, but
      instead it shows a "formula" [called =SERIES()]  with all the
      content of a series (value ranks, name rank, etc ). So, any serie
      may be edited directly there.
 
    + the concern is that the view jumps (Heiko)
        + it would be better if the formula bar is still shown, but with
          disabled input entry etc.
        + same for sidebar in Writer
        + ideally also toolbars stay at the same position - so that
          everything stays at the same position (Heiko)
 
    + probably not hiding (only disabling) the formula bar might be a
      good first step (Kendy)
AI      + look at that, research for an Easy hack (Kendy)
    + the toolbars are switched by default - standard bar is on the 2nd
      row (Jay)
AI      + Jay will have a look, Kendy will describe on the IRC (Jay)

* Terribly outdated screenshots on www.libreoffice.org (Kendy)
 
    + http://www.libreoffice.org/discover/screenshots/
    + anybody could take new ones with the 4.4 as soon as we have RC1?
        + with some good looking documents, etc.
    + wouldn't mind doing these, but dont have any good looking
      documents (Jay)
        + also which OS should these screenshots be taken on, as it
          would be useful to have multiple OSes to show that it works
          them
        + any way to find the same documents used in those old
          screenshots and if we use new ones, those should be archived
          for the next time we have to do this
    + can do Linux + Windows (Jay)
        + and can talk to Steve for OS X (Jay)
    + if you have any pretty looking documents, please send them to Jay
 
* Dialogs appearing with huge sizes requiring profile reset (Jay)
 
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=108935
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85901
    + http://i.imgur.com/VD1ZkWX.png
    + why is it not resizable in the first place? (Kendy)
        + does HIG forbid that?  Or? (Kendy)
 
* LO color palette has duplicate colors in 'Blue 1' and 'Sky Blue 1' (Jay)
 
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86511
    + just take a color that fits nicely there :-) (Kendy)
        + did not find something suitable unfortunately (Jay)
AI      + will try to come up with a color (Stuart)